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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be angry that the NHS doesn’t take pain seriously?

214 replies

LilyJosephine · 04/03/2025 22:26

AIBU to think that the NHS is regularly dismissive of pain, especially if you are a younger woman? Maybe I’m biased as I’m a regular on the infertility boards (have name changed) where it seems like a lot of women are struggling with a late endometriosis diagnosis (and so now fertility problems) where their pain was dismissed for years.

But now I am in the exact same situation but with my back. After 2 years of extreme pain and having been told by a muscular skeletal specialist (whom you have to be referred to first by your GP as they gatekeep further referral/MRI’s) that there was no way I had spinal stenosis, as I was too young and it’s not genetic 🤷‍♀️ (my parent has it); and that I couldn’t have an MRI as she was sure it was just disc degeneration that everyone gets as they age. She was totally dismissive. Now guess what I’ve just been diagnosed with?

Finally managed to find a sympathetic GP (young male foreign locum if it matters) after multiple visits to others. He was the only one not dismissive of my pain and managed to find a way around to get me an MRI. It’s a good job he did as the spinal stenosis has now progressed to cauda equina and they sent me straight to A and E. The A and E back specialist said “You’ve likely been living with this for years (the spinal stenosis)”. Yeah, you don’t say? 🙄

Two years of struggling to parent my toddler due to the pain (I’m a SMBC) and now I likely face future back operations to avoid paralysis 😢I was planning on having more IVF for a second child and that’s possibly out the window now too. I’m furious.

Thanks if you’ve read all that. AIBU to think the NHS is dismissive of pain? An MRI back then when I needed one would likely have saved NHS costs now as well as my pain - it’s so short sighted!

OP posts:
Halloumiheaven · 05/03/2025 00:49

HateLongCovid · 05/03/2025 00:43

I said that some doctors are arrogant. I believe you are just ignorant and ill informed.

I would love to explain my role in research to you and assure you I'm very much not ill Informed. But I think I may waste your time and mine.

I am allowed my opinions (some of which you have incorrectly assumed)

You are very much entitled to yours.

Thank goodness we live in a democracy (for now anyway )

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 05/03/2025 00:48

It's not just the NHS, dismissal of pain especially chronic pain is a wide spread issue. From various groups I'm in for chronic pain I know it happens widely in english speaking nations like America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia as well as the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if it's an issue in non English speaking countries too, I just have no experience there. There is a general bias against effective treatment of chronic pain but men and especially white men still get stronger doses and more medication prescribed at a population level then women or people from ethnic minorities. I don't know how the data compares between say caucasian women and men from ethnic minorities or if women from ethnic minorities are even worse off, but there is a lot of research showing systemic bias against women and against ethnic minorities.

JoyousGreyOrca · 05/03/2025 00:47

@justasking111 In England you can see a physio at your GP surgery. Mine has a waiting time of about a week for an appointment. There is criteria to be referred for more intensive physio - with back pain up to 8 sessions. And with certain more serious illnesses you can get ongoing NHS physio. My partner has had NHS physio for about 5 years.
But the NHS, in fact no national health system can fund everything. So if you want or need more, you do have to pay for it.

IHaveDefectedToTeamDog · 05/03/2025 00:43

Havent RTFT but OMG YES! Especially with back pain!
I went to GP age 36, and was told “we don’t do backs” DH kept ordering me to go back, but each time they shrugged and showed me the door.

10 agonising years later, I got orthotic insoles for over pronation and ankle problems. Back pain went! Why didn’t they tell me the link between my feet/gait and back pain? Would have saved years of discomfort.

Back pain has returned, despite years of relief from the insoles, so I’m going private. Can’t face being dismissed again.

Oh, and my anxiety is only allowed to be a menopause symptom, and only treatable by changing my HRT. Again. And again. And again.
Its still there 😔

HateLongCovid · 05/03/2025 00:43

I said that some doctors are arrogant. I believe you are just ignorant and ill informed.

Halloumiheaven · 05/03/2025 00:40

@HateLongCovid I have reread your post. I think I understand what you were trying to say now. I thought you meant your daughter had HIV

I'm sorry you find my opinions arrogant.

There's basis for my opinion rooted in research and fact.

I won't be changing my opinion based on your offense of it. Have a nice evening.

roselilylavender · 05/03/2025 00:39

I think that it comes down to the prejudice that men are more stoic and more busy and important and so will only take time out of their day to go to the doctors if there is something seriously wrong with them whereas women do nothing all day but sit around, drinking tea and discussing their ailments and therefore, if you, a woman, go to the doctor it is just because you are wanting to play oneupmanship or have something new to discuss rather than because you are in crippling pain.

faithspikebuffy · 05/03/2025 00:37

LilyJosephine · 05/03/2025 00:24

I’m trying to thank my lucky stars the pain wasn’t caused by something like a tumour though. At least Cauda Equina isn’t potentially terminal, just very debilitating. If this thread and others I’ve read is at all indicative, I dread to think of the number of people presenting with pain that doesn’t get taken seriously until it’s too late 😢

I think sometimes it's the type of pain that isn't taken seriously (endo, back pain)

I had cauda equina and had surgery, remember telling them I wanted to cut my own leg off to ease the pain and I definitely took too many painkillers sometimes. Fortunately 5hr op went great and I had a good recovery

2 years later my younger male cousin had been in and out of a&e begging for help with back pain after an accident. He died from an accidental pain killer overdose trying to relieve the pain age just 32

InWalksBarberalla · 05/03/2025 00:37

Unfortunately it's not just the NHS - it's a worldwide medical establishment thing. Woman's pain is just dismissed generally.

Halloumiheaven · 05/03/2025 00:36

HateLongCovid · 05/03/2025 00:33

@Halloumiheaven

I have a daughter with what you seem to class as a "non illness". Very judgmental of you me thinks. She is only 22, and did you know they said HIV was all in the head until they realised it wasn't. If doctors don't know what causes something many like to pretend it doesn't exist and us all in your head. Such arrogance 😡

My goodness me- what on earth caused you to think I thought HIV was a "non illness '" good grief it's a very serious lifelong immunological chronic disease ! 😲

HateLongCovid · 05/03/2025 00:33

@Halloumiheaven

I have a daughter with what you seem to class as a "non illness". Very judgmental of you me thinks. She is only 22, and did you know they said HIV was all in the head until they realised it wasn't. If doctors don't know what causes something many like to pretend it doesn't exist and us all in your head. Such arrogance 😡

Halloumiheaven · 05/03/2025 00:32

maddening · 05/03/2025 00:30

And funnily enough when there are actual illnesses that only impact women you can't get a diagnosis at all (not necessarily pain related)

Show quote history

I agree entirely.

My point was addressing why middle aged women (and that includes me) may end up unfairly getting stereotyped

justasking111 · 05/03/2025 00:31

I'm in Wales, was told a while ago that an MRI is a diagnosis. A diagnosis can put you on a waiting list. Which increases the number on waiting lists. So to shorten waiting lists they ration them.

Luckily I had private health care so went privately was diagnosed following the MRI. The treatment on the NHS re physio is dire . So I'm paying for physio.

I've no idea what happens in England etc. this is a Welsh sleight of hand.

maddening · 05/03/2025 00:30

Halloumiheaven · 05/03/2025 00:21

@maddening "all terrorists are "Muslim", but not all Muslims are terrorists" (not my quote )

"Not all middle aged women have (insert controversial subjective "chronic condition") but all subjective (insert controversial condition) sufferers are middle aged women"

So middle aged woman goes to GP with chronic pain and may get stereotyped into a particular group. The "diagnoses" flying around that aren't actually "diagnoses" possibly do not help matters

And funnily enough when there are actual illnesses that only impact women you can't get a diagnosis at all (not necessarily pain related)

Original poster
LilyJosephine · 05/03/2025 00:24

I’m trying to thank my lucky stars the pain wasn’t caused by something like a tumour though. At least Cauda Equina isn’t potentially terminal, just very debilitating. If this thread and others I’ve read is at all indicative, I dread to think of the number of people presenting with pain that doesn’t get taken seriously until it’s too late 😢

OP posts:
Halloumiheaven · 05/03/2025 00:21

@maddening "all terrorists are "Muslim", but not all Muslims are terrorists" (not my quote )

"Not all middle aged women have (insert controversial subjective "chronic condition") but all subjective (insert controversial condition) sufferers are middle aged women"

So middle aged woman goes to GP with chronic pain and may get stereotyped into a particular group. The "diagnoses" flying around that aren't actually "diagnoses" possibly do not help matters

Original poster
LilyJosephine · 05/03/2025 00:18

The ridiculous thing is that she seemed so certain it couldn’t be spinal stenosis since I was only 40 - as if I haven’t watched my parent go through the same thing and I don’t know severe pain from just an ache.

I managed gallstones in the past and immediate c section recovery with just some paracetamol. I have a high pain tolerance - I don’t want lots of pain killers, I just wanted them to tell me why I was in so much pain and an MRI would have done that. Now they have wasted time, the problem has gotten worse and I will likely take up far more NHS (and benefit) resources. I understand MRI’s don’t grow on trees but it seems so nonsensical 😡

OP posts:
Firefly1987 · 05/03/2025 00:18

iamnotalemon · 04/03/2025 23:09

Isn't women's health underfunded compared to men's health? I know if it was a man having these issues they'd be taken more seriously. Probably get a week off a month for their period.

I don't agree with this. It's very hard for a man to get a PSA test for example whilst women are practically badgered about smear tests-I'll be receiving my 3rd reminder any day now.

faithspikebuffy · 05/03/2025 00:17

@maddening she's trying to say that stuff like fibromyalgia fits a certain demographic, it isn't really a thing and those people are demanding pain relief for something that doesn't exist

So how can doctors tell whether someone really is in pain or not when they could just be diagnosed with a condition through process of elimination

And obviously that demographic is female (must tell my male friend who has fibromyalgia)

maddening · 05/03/2025 00:13

Halloumiheaven · 05/03/2025 00:10

No. I think I've made my point as clearly as I am able to.

Show quote history

What is it in one line apologies I have read it a few times and cannot work it out

Halloumiheaven · 05/03/2025 00:10

maddening · 05/03/2025 00:07

Sorry maybe it's me - not sure what your point is - are.you saying this is a bias against middle aged women or that the middle aged woman are at fault somehow?

Show quote history

No. I think I've made my point as clearly as I am able to.

faithspikebuffy · 05/03/2025 00:10

I went to a&e (as gynae told me to) because I couldn't get my pain under control. Gynae said if I was vocalising pain after all my meds then I needed to go in

I had taken max amounts of paracetamol, naproxen, dihydrocodeine and oramorph plus using a tens machine
A&E offered paracetamol, said nothing they could do and sent me home without examining me

A month later I'm in vocal pain again with gynae telling me to go to a&e... to what? Sit there for 12hrs trying not to scream in pain as people stare at me? You're ok, I'll stay at home and yell there!

Kingsleadhat · 05/03/2025 00:09

I went to a and e after falling over, told them I'd fainted and that my arm was painful. The doctor I saw queried whether I needed an x-ray saying there's no way that's broken if you were in real pain you'd make more fuss. It turned out I had fractured the humerus in two places and chipped the head of the bone

maddening · 05/03/2025 00:07

Halloumiheaven · 04/03/2025 23:11

What you've been through sounds horrible and dealing with that diagnosis plus feeling dismissed and disbelieved really adds insult to injury. I hope you're given the very best care and support going forwards.

So, I think you're right about women's symptoms and that includes pain being less believed.

Spinal stenosis is a degenerative condition that can cause really quite severe pain (as you well know). Now, I don't know how to articulate this diplomatically, but I'll try... There are now a lot of "wishy washy" chronic conditions that are applied to people that a Dr or team of specialists cannot find 'proof' of through various tests so a diagnosis of elimination is made that's given a name. It's very subjective and these conditions often co occur with other similar conditions of the same nature. Unfortunately, the people diagnosed with these conditions do often fit a demographic and sadly that demographic tends to be middle aged women with other co morbid mental health conditions. Now this is in no way a judgement on those individuals...

So, my point being, I think that translates to "middle aged women with chronic pain who want loads of strong painkillers for a condition that I can't find proof of " . I think as women we kind of fit into a "stereotype" and it's dangerous.

I'm sorry, I haven't articulated that well. I guess the short answer is, I think it's down to stereotyping. Particularly middle aged women.

I do wish you well for your future treatment and care. I'm glad you've got your answers finally at the very least !

Sorry maybe it's me - not sure what your point is - are.you saying this is a bias against middle aged women or that the middle aged woman are at fault somehow?

maddening · 05/03/2025 00:03

I would sue quite frankly- some of these hcps refusing tests - fucking ridiculous