To be angry that the NHS doesn’t take pain seriously?

Yes. I totally agree with you. Men with chronic pain get help and women get ignored. I've had a bad back for over 10 years. I can't do the things I enjoy because of it and am on painkillers.

I've often been told that I need to go away and fix it myself(!)

No I haven't had any issues with the NHS as a woman, even being diagnosed and treated promptly for an autoimmune disorder. But if you and other posters feel big by shitting on men or making out they have it so easy go for it. My dad never went to A&E with stage 4 cancer pain so I guess he must've been a different sort of male that goes there for "a paper cut".

I think theres truth to both, I've often heard men less likely to present with their symptoms but when they do get more investigations/treatment. But none of this is about men Vs women - its about the treatment of by clinicians. I think the medical field is a reasonably mixed affair in terms of sex, it's interesting that its not really a case of male Drs not listening/believing female patients, but male and female Drs not treating equally.

Another stupid bias is that when you discover a person takes drugs you're more likely to think they're making it up/not really sick - despite the fact that their drug use makes them far more likely to have a serious illness. So to counteract it some won't let a drug user be discharged without further tests because their aware their bias will push them to think that it's an exaggeration/not genuine/drug seeking and make them be keener to discharge them when maybe they wouldn't have done if they weren't a user.

Oh please.

Have you any experience at all with maternity or gynae care within the NHS?

WOMEN ARE BEING FAILED IN HEALTHCARE.

It isn’t sexism. It’s fact.

I have quite a high pain threshold and often find it hard to describe pain. A few years back I had bad abdominal pain that felt unusual - saw a young locum GP who insisted it was either gastroenteritis or IBS (although I’d never had previous symptoms and had no diarrhoea!) even gave me tablets for IBS without any tests!
Three days later I was doubled over in pain and after calling 111 saw an OOH GP, I was blue-lighted to A&E with sepsis caused by severe gallstones and inflammation of the liver - I spent over 2 weeks in hospital.
Too weak and grateful to have survived after fantastic treatment at the hospital to complain at the time, but I still feel angry about the dismissive ‘diagnosis’ of a ‘middle-aged women’s’ condition by that young GP. Newly occurring abdominal pain without other symptoms should always be investigated.

I'm so sick of the sexism against men on here, we ALL need better care and help for pain why does it always have to be made into men vs women? I thought it was actually well documented that men are LESS likely to go to the doctors than women. Has that changed or was it just a myth?

My experience of pain management on the NHS has been appalling.

I must have had to ask more than 20 times with various GPs before anyone agreed to give me strong enough painkillers for me to have any quality of life. I have an extremely painful health condition. I had got to the point of researching clinics in Switzerland before I finally spoke to a female GP who agreed to try some strong painkillers.

There was one particular phone call I had with a male GP who told me I shouldn't even be taking paracetamol for the pain I was in, which genuinely made me consider taking my own life there and then.

I get the feeling sometimes that if a bloke comes in with a paper cut (probably via ambulance), he will have every kind of test and pain relief offered to him. Women are made to feel like they are drug-shopping or wasting time and resources for simply existing. Meanwhile, it’s well-documented that a woman is much more likely to have lived with significant pain before seeking a diagnosis or treatment than men, who are more likely to head straight in at the first twinge.

I have horrific periods. Unbearable pain that I go to A&E and need morphine.

I told my gynae consultant that the coil isn’t working for me and my periods and pain are still horrific.

Do you want to know why my female consultant said to me?

”Do you think you ought to see a psychiatrist?”

I don't think individual Drs are thinking about cost, it doesn't come out their budget. It's more like what do they think the cause of the symptoms is, what special tests if any are needed to prove it or exclude other differentials/how could the mri influence the treatment plan, does the request meet the set criteria. But as I said re the MRI this isn't something the GP can typically order anyway. Although from what the op describes sounds like should have been referred to specialist much earlier, but then we don't know how they examined back then i.e. could have been classic CES red flags that were ignored not considered, or it could have presented as typically low grade msk back pain...

If you refer for a special test but the patient didn't meet the criteria it would normally be rejected. Its no where near the same standard but I can request x-rays in my role - if see a patient who wants their ankle x-rayed due to pain thinking it's broken, but then in the XR request note not justify clinically why it's required (bony tender, non weight bearing, Ottawa positive) then the radiologist will rightly reject the request and won't perform the x-ray.

Similar story. Youngish mum and dismissed as pregnancy related. Gave up and asked for a pain clinic referral. Consultant gave a simple test and ordered an MRI. Huge herniated disc, thankfully not cauda equina but nerve damage has left me with residual chronic pain over a decade since surgery. Female doctors were devastatingly dismissive, as was one male who laughed at me, and physios missed the clear sign as it was ‘obviously pregnancy’ and couldn’t possibly be anything else after two years of severe pain.

I’m still angry and grieving but the pain course post surgery did a lot to help and I have a reasonable life and am mostly ok with it. Not being able to have a second child must be a blow. I had my second lucky but knew I’d risk a worse injury if I had a third.

I totally agree with you. I think the NHS is dismissive of women's pain, whatever their age. It has actually been proven that medical professionals take womens' pain less seriously than mens'. I have a couple of examples of this. My DD and her DH have both had episodes of kidney stones. When my DD went to A and E,she was (reluctantly) given paracetamol which did absolutely nothing for the pain. When her DH went to A and E,he was offered a shot of morphine (which he accepted). Without even having to ask! My second example was for myself when I had a (potentially fatal) strangulated umbilical hernia. I was in severe pain and was throwing up every 20 minutes. In A nd E I was told that I had constipation and offered no pain relief. The doctor didn't even really examine me properly initially. One of my male cousins had the same thing a couple of years later. He was immediately given strong painkillers and a thorough examination.
Makes me so mad that women have to contend with these attitudes.

There's plenty of research worldwide that shows that medical personnel discount women's pain, particularly non-white women more frequently than they do men's. Womens longer life expectancy is due to genetics and hormones not NHS treatment.

Why? Why can't doctors order an MRI for everyone who has a longstanding back issue? Because I could book myself one tomorrow if I wanted. It's not even that expensive. But I presume other options are cheaper.
If it's funding then patients should be told that. Told that an MRI would be gold standard treatment but they are not going to get it because the NHS can't afford it. Then at least we could all make our own arrangements.

That sounds rough.
It's a frustrating situation, but it's the part of the GP job to safeguard referrals and special tests, that's the system we have in the UK, if they didn't it's likely waiting lists would be many times what they are already.

From what you've explained id agree it sounds like you had a significant delay in your diagnosis which shouldn't happen but it's recognised that unfortunately it's a risk in triage. Doesn't help when you're on the wrong end of it.

Triage is by no means a simple one, it's hard to see pain for what it is in a short appointment - to sift the genuine from the not so - everyone going to their Dr will have pain or another symptom of some kind. The huge majority of which will just get better in time, or its not a medical fix but a lifestyle change that's required - the volume of people coming in with back/knee problems and you take a history they've a BM of 35, never exercised, not engaged with physio, not tried using paracetamol and you just think we'll of course things are going to ache...

In terms of the MRI though to my knowledge GPs aren't allowed to refer for them. You'd refer the patient to the specialist team i.e. make/orthopedics as either routine or urgent, it would be that team that would arrange the MRI.

If you attended the clinic with symptoms of Claudia equina (typically any of the following -pain/altered sensation in both legs, altered sensation about the genitals -can present as difficulty to orgasm/maintain erection, altered bowel/bladder function) - then you normally be sent to A&E/orthopedics same day for review ?MRI. They don't scan everyone though, lots of people lie and exaggerate symptoms to try and get special tests but screening beforehand normally picks them out. As you're probably aware if CES isn't treated in 48hours from onset then there's much less that can be done. Often people come in with symptoms over X weeks and whilst I still refer on straight away can see they were dropped down to routine essentially becoming MRI for diagnosis only not for surgery/maybe steroids.

Its truly amazing that women have 4 years higher life expectancy than men and better mortality rates for almost all diseases, given that the sexist NHS apparently refuses to treat women's illnesses

I had a female consultant tell me I didn't have a problem with my back, to stop taking steroids (got hypoadrenalism so that would be difficult) loose weight and take up pilates. Very helpful (not). Turns out I had a bulging disk at l4/l5.

I ended up being referred to Salford Royal at the same time that dodgy consultant was working there. I actually saw him in clinic but thankfully I was assigned to one of the other consultants who was fab. Took 2 years to get my back sorted after 3 years of sciatica and being told it was in my head. My consultant told me they had to be careful because of my 'other' back problem.

Didn't have a clue what he was talking about until I saw a Rheumatologist who said oh dear you've got hypermobility. Sounds about right born with but not dx until 46 despite many years under a different Rheumatologist.

It's disgusting

YANBU and I'm sorry this has happened to you. My experiences with MSK have been dreadful. I was first told I had a rotator cuff injury and sent away with a leaflet. The exercises were agonising and made it worse. After much back and forth I was sent for physio which didn't help. More back and forth and was eventually sent for an ultrasound several years later. Very bad bursitis, fine, offered a steroid injection. Injection didn't help, more back and forth with the doctor and another couple of years go by. I developed a large lump on my shoulder and was finally sent for an MRI. It turned out that the 'rotator cuff injury' was actually a shoulder fracture which has led to the bursitis, cysts and muscle wastage. I thought, oh, finally, maybe someone will take me seriously now, but I never heard from them again. I went back to my GP surgery and finally got a GP who cared. So now, ten years on from the fracture and after ten years of pain and constant difficulty moving my dominant arm, I'm finally on the waiting list to see an orthopaedic consultant to discuss surgery.

@LilyJosephine The physio I saw asked questions and assessed to exclude spinal stenosis.
We do need more scanners, but then we need to pay more for our healthcare. We pay far less than comparable countries.
Without that expenditure, scans have to be used for those who are assessed to need it most.

@justasking111 When i saw the physio at my GP practice they assessed me, and then recommended exercises to do. What more do you want? If you do not have the willpower to do them and need a regular session with a physio, then yes you have to pay for it. But I did my exercises.

@Halloumiheaven

Go on then I'm interested. Which conditions does your research apparently prove isn't real?

That's very good. We get a hospital appointment, look at the notes print out a page of exercises and are sent away.