To be angry that the NHS doesn’t take pain seriously?

I know women campaigned and did a fantastic job and men probably need to do more but point is if it was so easy for them to get treatment (like some posters are insinuating) they wouldn't need to badger doctors for things like regular PSA tests. This is already something that happens in America from age 50 (might be even younger) and they have FAR better cure rates there. I do follow prostate cancer charities on twitter and give when I can. Am glad to know your Ddad is in remission and hope it stays that way.

You have to persist and keep pushing, i had both hips replaced when in my late 50 s , i was lucky but my gp said to me when knowing this was to happen, dont you think pain killers and exercise would help. I said Im getting them done its all arranged, i was living with the unbearable pain. Dont give up, ask for second opinions, you can be a pest its your pain.

I’m hoping that as just over 50% of doctors in the UK are now women, there is about to be a huge, desperately needed change on how women are viewed health wise. I think we’re generally tougher and used to accepting pain eg bad periods, childbirth - we need to be listened to when we do say this is painful in comparison to what we put up with daily, which we know is part of being a woman

This isn’t about the NHS per se but about individual professionals. There are some excellent professionals in the NHS and some specialist pain clinics. But sadly there are not enough of these.

I am sorry you had grim times too.

I've just recalled that in the six months before diagnosis, my father was very tired, and was treated for three chest infections. I remember remarking that he had bruises on his hands and he said it was from carrying heavy bags and the GP had agreed. He saw his GP six times in those six months. On holiday he collapsed and was taken to A&E. He had acute myeloid leukaemia. He died one year later.

He was 71.

I don't think this exclusively to do with how the NHS treats women - although its lack of knowledge on gynaecology clearly doesn't help.

My father suffered bad pain for years. His doctoe told him to take painkillers and exercise more. He was eventually diagnosed with metasticised lung cancer. Even then they didn't get his pain relief right, until a week before his death when he forked out for a private consultation.

I’ve had back and neck pain for years. Referred for nhs physio and just get given sheets of paper with exercises on. They don’t tend to help. So I stop. Months later and I go back for physio - we can self refer. See a different person who gives totally different exercises on paper. So far no one has examined me. GP prescribes amitriptyline for the nerve pain but for the mechanical pain in my lower back says to just take paracetamol and ibuprofen and just heat and ice when needed.

Where I work we can be referred for physio due to the nature of the job. Usually just about 6 weeks and usually if job related. Whilst my job hasn’t caused my issues, it’s contributed to them. So I get the referral. Private physio is hands on. Says no point on pages of exercises. Asks why I haven’t had an mri. Does a really thorough examination and suggests further appointments for hands on manipulation. I do this for 6 weeks and it seems to be helping. But then I get discharged as work only fund 6 session.

Pain comes back. Go back to GP. He ups the amitriptyline and says to he will refer for MRI. Gets a letter a few weeks later to go for an appointment with physio. MRI refused. New physio is a level above previous ones and he does a physical examination. Confirms it’s likely trapped nerve in neck. Suggests manipulation and a refers to a physio he knows who will do hands on rather than pages of exercises. I see her. She does 5 minutes with her 2 thumbs on my neck and gives me some exercises. Not helpful. She discharges me.

A year later I ask for another referral from work for private. Again their 30 minute hands on manipulations offer relief. After my 6 sessions I continue to pay weekly, the fortnightly, then monthly. Physio suggests o try Pilates for my core strength and lower back. Which I did for quite a few months but find that the arm exercises trigger my neck so I’ve had to stop for a while.

Went to get a repeat of my prescription from GP who decided o should be seen again for another examination so I do. Amitriptyline upped again. She now tries to send off another physio. This time trying for injections and further investigations.

I should add that my neck pain cause burning down my left arm. Constantly. Some days worse than others. At that time I was also having heart palpitations so I tried one time to get an appointment with out of hours and was told to go to A&E as they said it was symptoms of a heart attack. I said not and I just needed to be seen by GP to get some anxiety meds and pain relief. I’d assumed palpitations were anxiety as I’ve been told this before on the past. This was before the amitriptyline was prescribed. Went to A&E whist they did alsorts of tests. Was in for ages. Then they said my heart seems fine and likely anxiety and that I needed to go back to my GP for pain relief and anxiety meds as they couldn’t prescribe!! Waste of time.

Went for BP. High. Went again. High. Given a BP monitor to wear for a day. Average normal but picked up possible atrial fibrillation - funnily enough at the same times I get the palpitation. Eventually got an appointment 3 weeks after the BP monitor with the GP who has now referred me to cardiology as well.

It’s not just pain that’s dismissed. Everything is put down to anxiety or age. It’s such a battle. I’m nearly 50. I’ve had tiredness issues all my life. Usually it’s lifestyle - you’re a student, you’re working full time, you’ve got young kids. Years ago I had stomach issues. Again - anxiety. Eventually given beta blockers. Eventually got a referral for investigations. Turns out to be a lactose intolerance. Came off the beta blockers when I gave up dairy. Until o got put back on them for the palpitations!!

OP I'm so sorry for your health issues, it must be hard. I too have been fobbed off by numerous doctors with lower right abdominal pain for the last 3 years. The last bout of agony resulted in an 18 hour wait in A&E to be told it was "probably a UTI". I've now managed to get my GP to refer me for an MRI but I can only do so privately as they don't see it as medically urgent, given my last hospital visit didn't show anything. They've removed both my gallbladder and appendix and the pain is still there. Now pretty sure it's endometriosis given my increasingly horrific periods.
My husband was with me on one particular visit and he was absolutely flabbergasted that I was being dismissed so easily and to just take some paracetamol and "keep an eye on it".
Hopefully having a diagnosis of sorts is giving you some comfort, but I can only imagine the hoops you had to jump through.
It's shite being a woman sometimes.

You are aware that women themselves were a huge driver of the campaign for breast cancer research and subsequent treatment from donations ?

Perhaps men could get together and do something similar or really push and campaign with existing charities ? Perhaps Prostate UK would appreciate you getting in touch ?

It’s also worth noting that survival rates for breast cancer now are much better than 50 years ago - which was only about 40% chance of surviving 10 years in 1970. Because of said campaigning etc.

Whereas Prostate cancer is often already very treatable and the overall outcome in terms of survival rate is over 80% will survive more than 10 years (cancer UK).

So it’s fairly obviously already a better outcome than women with breast cancer were starting from back in the 1970s after which time the campaigns started and high profile women started to talk about it highlighting the need for research and new treatments.

Nevertheless still a worthy cause (indeed close to my heart as Ddad had prostate cancer and is in remission now ) so I’m sure you’ll be getting stuck in yourself.

Agree completely, and have back problems and have been fobbed off for years. Ended up in a&e recently after losing the ability to walk. Finally got a MRI (only because they were worried about cauda equina) a prolapsed disc, a torn disc and arthritis in lumbar joints. Not life threatening but very painful. I've been dismissed many times by nhs staff and there's all the waiting to be seen for appointments in total agony. Pain is not important at all

My late BIL had been off for a while, bad chest and back pains, headache and disorientated. DS went with him to GP with a list of about 5 symptoms as he was somewhat confused (1 symptom) GP would only discuss one symptom per appointment (WETF).
GP only wanted to talk about his existing BP problems. They persisted for weeks but every symptom was brought back to BP.He collapsed a couple of weeks later and was blue lighted to hospital. He had lung and brain tumours.
Poor man lived 4 months 😢.

A few years ago my health board in special measures for 8 years only lifting during COVID if they mess up surgeries send you off to the Spire to put it right to avoid compensation.

I have Trigeminal Neurologia and after finally seeing a specialist they said other then heavy zombifying pills there is nothing that's thry can do. So now Inhave to cough up to get cranial Osteopathic treatment and go down the alternative route which is very expensive.
My DM suffers with chronic pain and they threw everything at her all the drugs and injections and becuase it has not worked they say it is in her head...... Was she offered any MRI at any time. Nope.

I had similar a few years ago. In 2016 I fell and badly wedged my L1. I had already been diagnosed with osteoporosis. I insisted on a referral and was seen by an excellent rheumatologist and prescribed optimal treatment.

Five years later I had another bad fall. My wrist required surgery. I was in acute back pain and suspected another vertebrae had fractured. This was utterly dismissed. The pain continued.

I saw my GP who asked me to touch my toes. I could get as far as my mid shins and she told me no way was it other than muscular. I disagreed and fortunately was able to pay for a referral and MRI.

The T12 had wedged badly. The fact the NHS failed to listen caused a five month delay in optimal treatment. Optimal treatment not funded by the NHS because Inwas a couple of years younger than the NICE bar. Fortunately I had the £2400 to paynfor it.

NHS staff were both rude and dismissive, if not entirely incompetent.

I have been advised that if in future a Dr refuses a referral letter, to request that they record in my records " the patient requested a referral for further investigation because they suspect their symptoms may indicate a significant issue, but I disagree and have refused to refer".

The NHS needs to sort itself out. As per Taxguru, NHS staff certainly need to recognise that the NHS is only free at the pointnof delivery. It is not free - at all.

@taxguru @JoyousGreyOrca My cancer treatment was not good either. My post surgical pain was dismissed and ignored for months until I went private - unfortunately I’d already lost my job by then! The appointment booking was incompetent at best and a big percentage of staff lacked any compassion. I’m more terrified of having to deal with the NHS again than my cancer coming back.

This is so scary - it seems to be a bit of a lottery - ie being ‘lucky’ enough to get a GP/Hospital diagnosis correct and subsequent treatment.
You must feel let down, very disappointed and very angry.

Go and campaign on a men's health thread then

Just reading last week that Wes Streeting is further downgrading women’s services in the NHS.

@taxguru I am really sorry to hear that and I am surprised. Everyone I know who has caner or had cancer were really happy with their treatment

I'm sorry to hear that this has progressed to cauda equina syndrome. I'm a catastrophic injury lawyer, I don't deal with clinical negligence claims but I frequently see law reports of clinical negligence cases involving missed symptoms leading to cauda equina.

You might not be ready to consider this yet but if/when you are, you should seriously consider getting advice on.pursuing a claim as the consequences of this missed opportunity to diagnose & treat you are likely to have significant consequences for you. I can recommend some excellent CN Solicitors if you would like them. Or if not, please do your own research to find a proper specialist with experience of high value CN claims. You don't want to go to just anyone with this.

@anon666

I'm not sure whether it's just underresourcing, or attitude,

I think it's mostly attitude unfortunately. The NHS staff seem to have fallen into a downward spiral of obsession about how busy they are, how awful the patients are, etc etc. Not helped by the false claim of it being a world leading health service, pan banging, etc.

My OH has cancer and his "treatment" at the hands of supposedly professional staff in the oncology department has been abysmal. They can't get anything right, not appointment, not the drugs packages, not the infusions, etc. He has learned to question absolutely everything they do as it's a complete shambles. Even picking up his monthly drugs is a mammoth task involving multiple phone calls as they get the drugs wrong, the pick up location wrong, the dates wrong. It's an absolute fiasco, and that's for something life threatening, i.e. cancer!

When he is in utter despair at it all and complains, he gets the tired old trope of "you're lucky it's free, you'd be bankrupt in America" as their answer to why they're incompetent. It's that kind of attitude within the NHS which means it will never improve. Too many staff think they're doing you a favour and that you should be eternally grateful to them.

Maybe they could come up with something more accurate if they spent as much money on prostate cancer research as they do breast cancer?

I think there's a percentage of health workers who temper down the things you say pain wise....eg I'm not a screamer or go all OTT so it can't be that bad type of thing. There's also a pushed campaign with posters saying that there's no such thing as painkillers.....well when I'm in pain Dr Bloggs then take these pills if I take enough the pain stops...so what are the pills that kill the pain.....
Analgesics....Smart Arc.
Sorry long winded way to agreeing but as with this post don't give up you know your body keep getting another opinion if you feel strongly. Glad you got there OP