Page 34 | AIBU to be utterly horrified that the US has cut off military aid to Ukraine?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 2025-03-04T11:20:14+00:00

I was hoping that it was mostly just bluster from Trump. But we've woken up to the news that he has actually done it. He's literally swapped sides in the war and is now standing with the aggressor, Russia, and abandoning the victim, Ukraine. At least some Americans are speaking out against the decision: [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A09fa0e7f-6f1e-4770-9096-c5228d00635f#post https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A09fa0e7f-6f1e-4770-9096-c5228d00635f#post]] [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A8510a9e0-ea40-4895-835d-bb747d6b0339#post https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A8510a9e0-ea40-4895-835d-bb747d6b0339#post]] [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A43d2db68-32ae-47f3-a550-8a5bd491beb9#post https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A43d2db68-32ae-47f3-a550-8a5bd491beb9#post]]

localnotail · 04/03/2025 13:50

Our faithful under the bridge friends have woken up? Seems like a fair few got down to business

Bleekers · 04/03/2025 13:49

Sparklfairy · 04/03/2025 13:44

Do you know what a negotiation means? Neither does Trump, apparently. So much for the 'Art of the Deal'...

A negotiation means meeting in the middle. After, you know, negotiating. Trump literally said, 'We hold all the cards, you don't hold any cards, this won't end well for you if you don't accept.' That's called a threat.

If Russia had invaded the UK would you be happy about 'negotiating' relinquishing the occupied territory to Putin? With nothing in return apart from a vague promise of a ceasefire from a man who has already violated 25 ceasefires?

Show quote history

Middle … that a bit of a childish interpretation

A better example you could use is NI and ROI. Is there a negotiated agreement ? Putin invading UK is a bit silly, if he invaded … we’d never get it back.

JazzyJelly · 04/03/2025 13:49

Bleekers · 04/03/2025 13:46

You make a lot of mind-reading assumptions. Trump capitulated… really?

Does any world leader, other than Mr Z, really want THEIR own troops on the ground in Ukraine.

I will mind read it for you … NO. Not one European country wants their citizens dead in Ukraine.

Show quote history

I want troops from every European nation, including the UK, in Ukraine. Because I don't want Russian troops in Europe.

Your mind-reading is shit.

TheNoonBell · 04/03/2025 13:48

Sparklfairy · 04/03/2025 13:32

Actually the Budapest Memorandum obligates the US (and others) to protect Ukraine, and that is why they willingly gave up their nuclear weapons.

It's not a case of running to mummy because of a bully in the playground as you seem to suggest.

Show quote history

You might not be aware that the US under Obama in 2013 effectively ended the Budapest Memorandum when it sanctioned Belarus and when confronted declared that the BM was not legally binding.

Petuniaspetal · 04/03/2025 13:48

I'm not even being facetious in saying this, but where else are they going to find the money to give Elon all his money and contracts, and trump his back handers.
Alienating all their allies so they don't have to do anything for anybody.

Is this deliberate? ...because how could anyone be this ill informed/stupid...least of all a vice president...

Bleekers · 04/03/2025 13:46

AnonymousBleep · 04/03/2025 13:36

Bollocks. Trump had capitulated to Putin before negotiations even started. Thinks he's this great deal-maker, when he'd thrown the deal right from the very start. It would be laughable if it wasn't tragic - and it's made Europe a much more dangerous place. I'm guessing you're not European though so don't care.

Putin isn't going to be placated with a bit of Ukraine. The idea that that's a solution is risible. He doesn't care about losing men in war and never has. He wants the old USSR back.

Show quote history

You make a lot of mind-reading assumptions. Trump capitulated… really?

Does any world leader, other than Mr Z, really want THEIR own troops on the ground in Ukraine.

I will mind read it for you … NO. Not one European country wants their citizens dead in Ukraine.

BIossomtoes · 04/03/2025 13:45

EasternStandard · 04/03/2025 13:38

We've only offered peacekeepers and asking for US security, ie someone else steps in. Understandably voters there are a no. Who wants to step in if combat starts

Show quote history

The voters there haven’t been asked, have they?

BigSilly · 04/03/2025 13:45

Bleekers · 04/03/2025 13:20

It is a good that Europe/UK are stepping up.
Realising that Europe/UK Expect USA to handle security.

Don’t think it was a deliberate strategy, but do see that US is expected to step in, yet get criticized endlessly for stepping in

Makes me think of like how your kids expect you to pay for everything, even after you’ve supported them for 20+ years.

We have supported the US in their stupid wars

Terrribletwos · 04/03/2025 13:44

Shitmonger · 04/03/2025 13:43

It’s not surprising. After Zelenskyy directly threatened the US twice during the meeting, which immediately turned the tone and got him shut down by Trump and Vance, I was expecting this.

Zelenskyy’s threats seem to have made a lot of Americans change their minds about supporting him as well.

How did he directly threaten the US?

Sparklfairy · 04/03/2025 13:44

Bleekers · 04/03/2025 13:33

What I saw was Trump & Co pursuing a negotiated solution. Both sides feeling like the got something and ending a costly war.
Looked like press conference was supposed to signal this.

Mr Z … didn’t want a negotiable and let that be known.

So, now it’s all about war - weapons spending, troops, death and in the end - boarders similar to whatever Trump negotiation would have yielded with added cost of a military boarder zone costing billions a year to defend.

thanks Zelensky….

The more I think about it - he is a little fool in heels, dancing EU & UK into a costly war.

Show quote history

Do you know what a negotiation means? Neither does Trump, apparently. So much for the 'Art of the Deal'...

A negotiation means meeting in the middle. After, you know, negotiating. Trump literally said, 'We hold all the cards, you don't hold any cards, this won't end well for you if you don't accept.' That's called a threat.

If Russia had invaded the UK would you be happy about 'negotiating' relinquishing the occupied territory to Putin? With nothing in return apart from a vague promise of a ceasefire from a man who has already violated 25 ceasefires?

Shitmonger · 04/03/2025 13:43

It’s not surprising. After Zelenskyy directly threatened the US twice during the meeting, which immediately turned the tone and got him shut down by Trump and Vance, I was expecting this.

Zelenskyy’s threats seem to have made a lot of Americans change their minds about supporting him as well.

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/03/2025 13:43

YANBU @Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. The USA is no longer reliable as an ally or business partner. They cant be trusted while Putin is in charge.

CatServant2020 · 04/03/2025 13:43

@itsjustbiology Ukraine didn't start the war, Russia did Ukraine is defending itself, Russia is attacking Ukraine. Ukraine civilians are dead, there have been very few Russian civilian deaths.

Do you really think Putin is going to stop at Ukraine. Putin and Trump want to control the rest of the world between them.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 04/03/2025 13:42

And as for Trump Vance etc wearing suits ... you can't polish a turd 💩

Notonthestairs · 04/03/2025 13:42

There is a such a contradiction at the heart of the US & Russian arguments :

Russia will sign a 'peace agreement'
US can not provide support to Ukraine because Russia can not be trusted not to attack Ukraine.

Simply doesnt square up.

Its either worth negotiating a peace treaty or its not - the US has clearly acknowledged that it is not.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 04/03/2025 13:41

From the Vice President of a country that hasn't won one since the War of Independance. Joining in when the it was clear which was the winning side doesn't count.

///

And a county that absolutely fleeced us financially for the privilege ...

Whatafustercluck · 04/03/2025 13:40

RubyTuesday48 · 04/03/2025 13:27

That's because many Americans can't see beyond their own borders. When I lived there the big surprise was finding out how few own passports. We may think we see lots of American tourists here but in fact they don't all travel that much, even within their own country.

Show quote history

Funnily enough, I just spoke to an American friend who is in the process of applying to get her British passport back (she was born in the UK and left when she was 16, her parents are American). She now has three children and is applying for British passports for them, too "just in case". She said even aside from the havoc Trump is causing internationally, not an hour goes by without another news alert telling her he's done something domestically that is horrific, or illegal, or both.

AnonymousBleep · 04/03/2025 13:38

sidebirds · 04/03/2025 13:37

Thankyou 👍🏾 Excellently put.

Trump is forcing the hand of the corrupt cokehead

🕊️☮️🙏

Show quote history

There's the small matter of the USA breaking the deal it made with Ukraine in promising its security in return for handing over its nuclear arsenal in 1994. But Trump isn't a man of his word, or anyone's word for that matter, is he?

EasternStandard · 04/03/2025 13:38

duc748 · 04/03/2025 13:23

I'd say two things: firstly, Trump is a POS, and so is Vance. But secondly, the will in the West to continue to support Ukraine is/was waning fast, and not just in the US. The sad truth is that the West were always going to dump on Zelenskyy eventually, and even if the Democrats had won the US election, the tone might have been different, but the long-term results the same. We can complain abut how awful Putin is all we like, but I suspect British enthusiasm for our 'boots on the ground' (and the corpses that go with them) won't be much greater than American voters have shown.

We've only offered peacekeepers and asking for US security, ie someone else steps in. Understandably voters there are a no. Who wants to step in if combat starts

Tabitha005 · 04/03/2025 13:37

BunfightBetty · 04/03/2025 11:49

It’s been obvious that all Trump’s moves have been to further the interests of Russia for years.

The baffler is why the American electorate didn’t see it.

Edited

... because a large enough proportion of the US electorate hated Biden and the Democrats enough to mobilise themselves into voting for Trump (again). It baffles me that so many US citizens refuse to acknowledge that Trump is a Russian asset - I mean, you can see a train when it's coming.

PebbleJus · 04/03/2025 13:37

itsjustbiology
He is taking a stand and a valid one at that that America is not the saviour of the world especially financially.Why do you all expect that country to finance everything? America owes no country anything

Isn't that a role it has taken on? Isn’t that one of the reasons the USA has over 750 military bases in 80 countries around the world? If they want to withdraw from this guardian role, fine but there is a right and wrong way of going about it. Not sudden actions like this.

sidebirds · 04/03/2025 13:37

itsjustbiology · 04/03/2025 12:15

I am sorry but I have never in my 50 pus years on this earth read so much crap and seen so many hysterical posts as on this thread. its bloody ridiculous.where on earth are you getting your bizarre ideas from?
President Trump is posturing and making a very valid point to the world,us included,cannot you see that?He is taking a stand and a valid one at that that America is not the saviour of the world especially financially.Why do you all expect that country to finance everything? America owes no country anything, and why should the President and citizens of America be subject to such disrespect? Aid has temporarily been suspended. This is to force the hand of the little man running round the world with his hands out in his action man clothes demanding every other country finance his every whim whilst billions of pounds has gone "missing". Nobody,not one single country,us,France,anyone can go into this with alleged peacekeepers or boots on the ground without America no one, you should remember that.No American backing No dice and no one can move and no peace. Whilst our Pm is rallying leaders of nations no one has the money.weapons or troops to move an inch without America. Trump is forcing the hand of Zalensky to negociate. As for being a russian plant well ffs grow up.This war will be stopped round a table not on the battlefield as zalensky would like glorified by dead soldiers on the ground. I would step back,calm down and have a chill about which scenario would play out the best for everyone.

Thankyou 👍🏾 Excellently put.

Trump is forcing the hand of the corrupt cokehead

🕊️☮️🙏

AnonymousBleep · 04/03/2025 13:36

Bleekers · 04/03/2025 13:33

What I saw was Trump & Co pursuing a negotiated solution. Both sides feeling like the got something and ending a costly war.
Looked like press conference was supposed to signal this.

Mr Z … didn’t want a negotiable and let that be known.

So, now it’s all about war - weapons spending, troops, death and in the end - boarders similar to whatever Trump negotiation would have yielded with added cost of a military boarder zone costing billions a year to defend.

thanks Zelensky….

The more I think about it - he is a little fool in heels, dancing EU & UK into a costly war.

Show quote history

Bollocks. Trump had capitulated to Putin before negotiations even started. Thinks he's this great deal-maker, when he'd thrown the deal right from the very start. It would be laughable if it wasn't tragic - and it's made Europe a much more dangerous place. I'm guessing you're not European though so don't care.

Putin isn't going to be placated with a bit of Ukraine. The idea that that's a solution is risible. He doesn't care about losing men in war and never has. He wants the old USSR back.

Barney16 · 04/03/2025 13:34

Last week I understood why Starmer was trying to be softly softly diplomatic. Now I want someone to actually say, what I'm sure they are thinking, which is President Trump you are a venal, wicked man. Both he and JD Vance are scum. Of course everyone wants peace in Ukraine but this is shameful. It's so distressing.

AnonymousBleep · 04/03/2025 13:33

nuned · 04/03/2025 13:28

We don't, no, but Trump is doing his best to ensure we get it.

How so ?

Because Russia WANTS a war with Europe and Trump's making it nice and easy for him. Putin isn't going to stop at a bit of Ukraine. His plan is to bring the whole of the USSR into the fold, and then he'll be a much more dangerous threat to the West than he currently is. Obviously he'll be happier if he just gets given those countries without having to fight for them - are you suggesting the rest of the world should just capitulate to Putin? Because that's what Trump is doing.