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AIBU to be utterly horrified that the US has cut off military aid to Ukraine?

992 replies

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 04/03/2025 11:20

I was hoping that it was mostly just bluster from Trump. But we've woken up to the news that he has actually done it. He's literally swapped sides in the war and is now standing with the aggressor, Russia, and abandoning the victim, Ukraine.

At least some Americans are speaking out against the decision:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A09fa0e7f-6f1e-4770-9096-c5228d00635f#post

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A8510a9e0-ea40-4895-835d-bb747d6b0339#post

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A43d2db68-32ae-47f3-a550-8a5bd491beb9#post

Ukraine war latest: US pauses military aid to Ukraine as EU chief says Europe is 'ready to step up'

Meanwhile, Russia says Donald Trump's move is "the best contribution to the cause of peace".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A09fa0e7f-6f1e-4770-9096-c5228d00635f#post

OP posts:
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30
sidebirds · 07/03/2025 13:36

DuncinToffee · 07/03/2025 09:39

The Washington Post did a detailed fact check on that video

Archived link
https://archive.ph/Ffoxn

RFK Jr.’s ‘history lesson’ on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine flunks the fact test

The Washington Post is an activist platform posing as a neutral one. You may as well quote BBC Verify as evidence.

RFK jr. on the other hand is of independent mind: a lifelong member of the Democrat party he became disillusioned with their direction, and stood as an independent candidate before finally throwing his weight behind the Trump re-election campaign. He has no axe to grind and is worthy listening to. Not to mention that - as the Washington Post article you cite mentions - the video in question is from his period as an independent candidate 👍🏾

cardibach · 07/03/2025 13:17

justasking111 · 07/03/2025 13:14

Newspapers do it frequently, nobody blinks. We're all being nudged. You can complain but don't expect the media to pull articles on your say so,

No, they don’t. Newspapers aren’t allowed to lie. They can spin a bit but if they lie and are caught out they have to retract. They can get into legal trouble. This idea that we can’t trust traditional media at all isn’t helpful.

DuncinToffee · 07/03/2025 13:16

Newspaper frequently have to publish corrections

justasking111 · 07/03/2025 13:14

cardibach · 07/03/2025 13:05

As has been pointed out before opinions are fine. Lies are not. You can’t present something as a fact when it is absolutely not true. That’s not an opinion. Zelenskyy has not bought a very expensive house in Florida, for eg, as was stated earlier in the thread. That’s a lie. Deliberate misinformation. I’ve no problem with someone being of the opinion that they dislike Z and think Ukraine should surrender. I disagree on the latter, and have no personal opinion on the former. But they can’t ’back up’ their opinion with lies. That’s not on and should be deleted.

Newspapers do it frequently, nobody blinks. We're all being nudged. You can complain but don't expect the media to pull articles on your say so,

TheRadiatorIsShouting · 07/03/2025 13:06

itsjustbiology · 04/03/2025 12:15

I am sorry but I have never in my 50 pus years on this earth read so much crap and seen so many hysterical posts as on this thread. its bloody ridiculous.where on earth are you getting your bizarre ideas from?
President Trump is posturing and making a very valid point to the world,us included,cannot you see that?He is taking a stand and a valid one at that that America is not the saviour of the world especially financially.Why do you all expect that country to finance everything? America owes no country anything, and why should the President and citizens of America be subject to such disrespect? Aid has temporarily been suspended. This is to force the hand of the little man running round the world with his hands out in his action man clothes demanding every other country finance his every whim whilst billions of pounds has gone "missing". Nobody,not one single country,us,France,anyone can go into this with alleged peacekeepers or boots on the ground without America no one, you should remember that.No American backing No dice and no one can move and no peace. Whilst our Pm is rallying leaders of nations no one has the money.weapons or troops to move an inch without America. Trump is forcing the hand of Zalensky to negociate. As for being a russian plant well ffs grow up.This war will be stopped round a table not on the battlefield as zalensky would like glorified by dead soldiers on the ground. I would step back,calm down and have a chill about which scenario would play out the best for everyone.

In all MY 50 plus years on the planet I have never read anything quite so patronising and based on very little substance.

FYI the U.K. and USA have been sending out of date weapons to Ukraine thus SAVING money on the decommissioning and dismantling of them.

FYI Putin is as greater threat to world peace as Hitler was. The only way forward is to stand up to him. Not capitulate and join him. That would be an open invitation for him to go further.

cardibach · 07/03/2025 13:05

justasking111 · 07/03/2025 12:52

Mumsnet is opinions though whether they be Russian Belarus or UK based. Mumsnet can check genuine, not genuine posters they can't block opinions even eyebrow lifting ones.

As has been pointed out before opinions are fine. Lies are not. You can’t present something as a fact when it is absolutely not true. That’s not an opinion. Zelenskyy has not bought a very expensive house in Florida, for eg, as was stated earlier in the thread. That’s a lie. Deliberate misinformation. I’ve no problem with someone being of the opinion that they dislike Z and think Ukraine should surrender. I disagree on the latter, and have no personal opinion on the former. But they can’t ’back up’ their opinion with lies. That’s not on and should be deleted.

kungfoofighting · 07/03/2025 13:00

justasking111 · 07/03/2025 12:52

Mumsnet is opinions though whether they be Russian Belarus or UK based. Mumsnet can check genuine, not genuine posters they can't block opinions even eyebrow lifting ones.

I think disinformation campaigns occupy a distinct category. It’s not just about having an unusual opinion

justasking111 · 07/03/2025 12:52

cardibach · 07/03/2025 12:04

Yup. Which is exactly why I have asked MN to delete misinformation posts. They don’t seem to want to though. Other posters providing the facts doesn’t really help. The misinformation being allowed to stand gives it some legitimacy in the eyes of those who want to believe it.

Mumsnet is opinions though whether they be Russian Belarus or UK based. Mumsnet can check genuine, not genuine posters they can't block opinions even eyebrow lifting ones.

cardibach · 07/03/2025 12:04

DdraigGoch · 07/03/2025 11:31

I think that they're operating on the basis that if they throw enough mud some of it will stick.

Yup. Which is exactly why I have asked MN to delete misinformation posts. They don’t seem to want to though. Other posters providing the facts doesn’t really help. The misinformation being allowed to stand gives it some legitimacy in the eyes of those who want to believe it.

DdraigGoch · 07/03/2025 11:31

Psychostates · 07/03/2025 10:27

Some complete idiots on this thread who shouldn't be commenting when they don't have the facts, know nothing about history, and are creating their own narrative. It isn't even a debate at this point.

I think that they're operating on the basis that if they throw enough mud some of it will stick.

Notonthestairs · 07/03/2025 10:36

"😂 God you're delusional, the absolute rubbish being spouted by the cult followers is astounding. Putin controls the election! If you vote for the opposition you're in prison, he arrests the protesters FFS."

We also know what Putin does to his opponents. Navalny died just over a year ago.

Notonthestairs · 07/03/2025 10:34

@Darker - no apology needed. I shouldn't have resorted to sarcasm!

Psychostates · 07/03/2025 10:31

sleepwouldbenice · 07/03/2025 10:30

Idiots are just derailing, refuse to answer basic questions so best ignored

I'm beginning to wonder if they're Russian bots.

sleepwouldbenice · 07/03/2025 10:30

Idiots are just derailing, refuse to answer basic questions so best ignored

Psychostates · 07/03/2025 10:27

cardibach · 07/03/2025 10:24

He’s in a war. The Ukrainian constitution doesn’t allow for war time elections, much like Britain didn’t have any in WW2. Was Churchill also a dictator?

Some complete idiots on this thread who shouldn't be commenting when they don't have the facts, know nothing about history, and are creating their own narrative. It isn't even a debate at this point.

cardibach · 07/03/2025 10:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

He’s in a war. The Ukrainian constitution doesn’t allow for war time elections, much like Britain didn’t have any in WW2. Was Churchill also a dictator?

Psychostates · 07/03/2025 10:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

😂 God you're delusional, the absolute rubbish being spouted by the cult followers is astounding. Putin controls the election! If you vote for the opposition you're in prison, he arrests the protesters FFS.
You can't have an election when you're at war, what an idiotic comment.

Darker · 07/03/2025 10:19

Notonthestairs · 07/03/2025 10:10

I was being sarcastic. Yes, absolutely we need detail. And we need TV presenters to not mindlessly share videos as Gotchas without doing some fairly basic fact checking. I think that was once called journalism.

Apologies. Too much heat on this thread!

Notonthestairs · 07/03/2025 10:10

I was being sarcastic. Yes, absolutely we need detail. And we need TV presenters to not mindlessly share videos as Gotchas without doing some fairly basic fact checking. I think that was once called journalism.

Darker · 07/03/2025 10:05

Actually I think we need detail. The polarisation of debate and the misinformation means that we are too wound up to think or speak clearly.

Notonthestairs · 07/03/2025 10:00

That's where the Washington Post has gone wrong. Too much detail.

DuncinToffee · 07/03/2025 09:52

Notonthestairs · 07/03/2025 09:47

"The Washington Post did a detailed fact check on that video

Archived link
archive.ph/Ffoxn

RFK Jr.’s ‘history lesson’ on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine flunks the fact test"

That's a fairly comprehensive rebuttal.

It's a 16 minute read compared to a 4 minute video Wink

Notonthestairs · 07/03/2025 09:47

"The Washington Post did a detailed fact check on that video

Archived link
archive.ph/Ffoxn

RFK Jr.’s ‘history lesson’ on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine flunks the fact test"

That's a fairly comprehensive rebuttal.

DuncinToffee · 07/03/2025 09:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Martial law forbids elections in Ukraine

AIBU to be utterly horrified that the US has cut off military aid to Ukraine?
user9876543211 · 07/03/2025 09:41

DuncinToffee · 07/03/2025 09:39

The Washington Post did a detailed fact check on that video

Archived link
https://archive.ph/Ffoxn

RFK Jr.’s ‘history lesson’ on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine flunks the fact test

Thank you for this. I fear your facts are in vain (as far as our Forbes and suchlike reader goes), but still good to have them out there.