Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that after COL change expectations have to change

271 replies

EuclidianGeometryFan · 03/03/2025 15:59

If you are a couple in "professional" or middle-to-highish income jobs, say between £70k to £100k joint family income, is it now unreasonable to expect to raise two children in a middle-class lifestyle in the south?

Example of a couple with a 3 bed house, run one car, two children in primary, so still need after-school and holiday childcare, have a dog.
Would you expect to afford a few coffees each week, a couple of meals out or takeaways each month, a couple of TV subscriptions, a nice holiday abroad, or perhaps a better car instead of the holiday - and not to have to count the pennies when shopping or turn the heating off to save money?

Or is this too much to expect?

Would it be more reasonable nowadays to not afford the coffees and meals, not afford the dog, only cheap camping holidays in UK, old car, no TV subscriptions?
Even when the children are in secondary and no longer need childcare, you then have to worry about helping them afford uni or house deposit or driving lessons.

(On the plus side, at least you own your own house into retirement.)

I think our idea of what a "professional middle-class" lifestyle should be like has to permanently change. With the cost of childcare and housing, we just can't live at the standard we used to.

OP posts:
neverwakeasleepingbaby · 04/03/2025 19:24

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 19:01

There have been periods of growth and boom, followed by depression/crisis/ war for centuries and people managed.
They cracked on but now it's why me, something has to be done!

😆😆 we've not had growth since the 08 bust, that's the point...

Ha yes I graduated into that nonsense. No graduate jobs etc. Since then it's been a total shitstorm of Brexit, the pandemic etc. As I approach 40, the once full well of resilience is running somewhat dry

YesImawitch · 04/03/2025 19:16

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 19:01

There have been periods of growth and boom, followed by depression/crisis/ war for centuries and people managed.
They cracked on but now it's why me, something has to be done!

😆😆 we've not had growth since the 08 bust, that's the point...

Yes I know!

Scrubberdubber · 04/03/2025 19:09

YesImawitch · 04/03/2025 18:57

But that doesn't change the fact that CoL have risen for everyone.

Endless threads on here about it.
Yep we know!

Why do people lack Resilience?
There have been periods of growth and boom, followed by depression/crisis/ war for centuries and people managed.
They cracked on but now it's why me, something has to be done!

Exactly times have always been changing thank god we're not living in the black death times. Or world war one. How would these people cope?

I've noticed on most of these threads it's the people who had really quite wealthy childhood's (compared to 90% of the population) Ie foreign holidays in the 80s, big houses, pony lessons someone even mentioned boarding school on another thread that are moaning and bitching that they aren't as rich as their parents were. Bitching about old people "hoarding their wealth" as if all old people are as well off as their parents.

They always try and downplay/humble it describing their childhood as "middle class" but I agree with that poster that pointed out that most of what gets described on here isn't middle anything it's upper.

Cakeandcheeseforever · 04/03/2025 19:06

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 17:40

On a lot of pension threads there is talk of how many currently retired people started work younger so started paying tax/NI earlier than many younger (obviously there are exceptions) and here we can talk about how jobs need us to stay in education longer than jobs a generation ago.

I got NI stamps from age 17, I'm a millennial & worked through uni. I'm
not unusual.
The pension scheme at my work changed whilst I was at uni to be less generous.

@keyboardtypo same - I’m also a millennial and have been working since I was 14 (started off with things like paper round deliveries, then waitressing. Part time at first admittedly)

Willoo · 04/03/2025 19:01

Covertcollie · 03/03/2025 16:07

That would be fine if we didn’t see our parents generation living it up on final salary pensions from very basic careers, multiple foreign holidays a year, knowing your pension pot is pitiful in comparison…

I don’t know anyone of that age that has that stuff. My parents are poor. My aunts are poor. Get that chip off your shoulder

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 19:01

There have been periods of growth and boom, followed by depression/crisis/ war for centuries and people managed.
They cracked on but now it's why me, something has to be done!

😆😆 we've not had growth since the 08 bust, that's the point...

Ashshandmaid · 04/03/2025 19:00

We probably do need to reduce our expectations based on jobs and income. But that's grim af.

YesImawitch · 04/03/2025 18:57

fitzwilliamdarcy · 04/03/2025 16:54

This. I'm also a lawyer. My dad worked in clerical admin and my mum was a SAHM. Their quality of life vastly exceeded mine, because not everything cost a bajillion freaking pounds. The fact that my job required a number of years of study and training whereas his didn't even require a degree makes this even more annoying. That's the point.

But that doesn't change the fact that CoL have risen for everyone.

Endless threads on here about it.
Yep we know!

Why do people lack Resilience?
There have been periods of growth and boom, followed by depression/crisis/ war for centuries and people managed.
They cracked on but now it's why me, something has to be done!

wherearemypastnames · 04/03/2025 18:19

I didn't miss out council tax and other bills
. I just know that it's quite possible on under 2k to pay for a lot of fun stuff as well as the basic living costs - sorry if that wasn't clear

Not every family will have 8 years of full on nursery fees - post 2 and once in school the costs are much lower - i saved beforehand for those earliest years. Other people take a career break , or stagger hours with husband to reduce the days in care or rely on friends and family

Hum thinking in it - I don't know anyone who ever did full time nursery - wonder how common that is ?

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 17:40

On a lot of pension threads there is talk of how many currently retired people started work younger so started paying tax/NI earlier than many younger (obviously there are exceptions) and here we can talk about how jobs need us to stay in education longer than jobs a generation ago.

I got NI stamps from age 17, I'm a millennial & worked through uni. I'm
not unusual.
The pension scheme at my work changed whilst I was at uni to be less generous.

Overthebow · 04/03/2025 17:36

wherearemypastnames · 04/03/2025 14:35

The things is that a couple on 70k should be able to afford a holiday and many nice things but they wouldn't be able to afford every nice thing. If they can't it's money management that more the issue

Nursery costs are not being included here because that's a short term thing that not every parent has to have

2 people on 36k each - total take home 4800 a month ( assuming student loans and pensions deducted )

2000 for a reasonable 3 bed semi - a 350-400k house so area dependent as to how nice that is - in many places that's a 4 bed detached

800 a month for travel assumes both commute every day into London

Leaves 2000 left for everything else
Having checked my spreadsheets -
That's plenty for food, insurance , clothes , house maintenance, a night or two out every week and a few holidays

Yes it's a tighter if you have 2 sets or nursery fees to pay but that's temporary and often people get something towards that

You’ve missed out council tax and bills. In a 3 bed semi for a family, that’s likely £500 a month. Then food at £500 a month and everything else you mention would be most of that spare £2000. So no abroad holidays for that family. Also travel into London for lots of areas is more than £400 a month. And nursery fees are probably what’s bringing the standard of living down for young families. Yes it may be temporary but put two Dc through nursery is likely to be 7-8 years of nursery fees so not a short time. At £800+ a month even with the funded hours you can see how big an impact that has on a £70k income family for 8 years.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 04/03/2025 17:27

wherearemypastnames · 04/03/2025 17:06

Do your parents agree that their quality of life was far better or is that your memory/ interpretation ?

I mean for my parents that wouldn't be true at all because although things were cheaper there wasn't so much to get and their jobs weren't that well paid despite both being educated beyond school - they wee retired before they went aboard; money worries they tried to hide but failed

No, they think they were in poverty due to mortgage interest rates, and that younger generations all spend so much on avocado toast and that's why they can't buy houses.

This despite the fact that they bought a (huge, detached) house for £70k (and sold it for £850k), were mortgage-free in their 40s, ran two cars, had foreign holidays, shopped in M&S, had a large family and retired comfortably at 55. All on one income.

I could not conceivably have that lifestyle at their age. I have a much smaller house, will be paying my mortgage until I'm in my 60s, haven't a car, haven't been on holiday since 2018, shop in Aldi, can't afford kids and will be working into my 70s.

So although we disagree the facts speak for themselves as far as I'm concerned.

And no, before anyone starts, I'm not saying every baby boomer is/was wealthy.

Wildflowers99 · 04/03/2025 17:18

I think everyone has to adjust to our new normal.

I think we DO spend a lot more on ‘stuff’ than we used to - clothes, beauty, toys, gadgets - most of the women I know have new clothes every month, spend £100 on Nike Airs (or whatever expensive trainer is in), buy the same mini trainers for their kids, then moan about CoL.

But equally I feel like you’re making a point about the middle classes out of a bit of spite or something? The working classes also massively overspend - the number of posts I’ve seen on local FB page pleading poverty and needing donations and up pops a photo of a very well presented mum with fake nails, eyelashes and expensive clothes, all the while moaning about how much everything costs and ‘I’m so ashamed to be asking but..’. One of them did a begging post then the next day asked where she can buy a new sofa with a bad credit rating as ‘we’ve decorated the living room and the old one just doesn’t match’.

I think they overspend as they know essentially the government will never leave them and their kids homeless and starving. The ultimate deterrent is gone.

neverwakeasleepingbaby · 04/03/2025 17:10

wherearemypastnames · 04/03/2025 17:06

Do your parents agree that their quality of life was far better or is that your memory/ interpretation ?

I mean for my parents that wouldn't be true at all because although things were cheaper there wasn't so much to get and their jobs weren't that well paid despite both being educated beyond school - they wee retired before they went aboard; money worries they tried to hide but failed

Yes they do believe we have it much harder now.
Of course there is the occasional comment about the 15% interest rates for mortgages but it didn't convince my mum to get a job so I'm not sure it could have been that bad..?

Lentilweaver · 04/03/2025 17:09

My quality of life is far, far better than that of my parents and so is DH's.
My kids have a better life than me in some ways, worse in others. But I am helping them quite a bit.

OddBoots · 04/03/2025 17:09

On a lot of pension threads there is talk of how many currently retired people started work younger so started paying tax/NI earlier than many younger (obviously there are exceptions) and here we can talk about how jobs need us to stay in education longer than jobs a generation ago.

Two sides of the same coin.

wherearemypastnames · 04/03/2025 17:06

Do your parents agree that their quality of life was far better or is that your memory/ interpretation ?

I mean for my parents that wouldn't be true at all because although things were cheaper there wasn't so much to get and their jobs weren't that well paid despite both being educated beyond school - they wee retired before they went aboard; money worries they tried to hide but failed

fitzwilliamdarcy · 04/03/2025 16:54

neverwakeasleepingbaby · 04/03/2025 16:34

Possibly but I was just expecting that I might have a better quality of life for having a better job than my parents (my job as a lawyer has existed for many many years, it's not a "new" type of job). But I don't. So I guess I'm going to have to adjust my expectations. As per the title of the thread

This. I'm also a lawyer. My dad worked in clerical admin and my mum was a SAHM. Their quality of life vastly exceeded mine, because not everything cost a bajillion freaking pounds. The fact that my job required a number of years of study and training whereas his didn't even require a degree makes this even more annoying. That's the point.

neverwakeasleepingbaby · 04/03/2025 16:34

OddBoots · 04/03/2025 16:05

Don't most of us have better jobs than our parents? The old piecework and very manual jobs have been mechanised or don't exist at all. I don't think we can compare jobs with jobs in that way by generation - most jobs now need more education than our parents needed so something that was thought of as a 'very good job' (doctor, teacher, engineer, accountant etc) is now just a decent regular job and jobs that were thought of as decent regular jobs (retail, waiter, admin etc) are now thought of as entry level jobs.

The window has shifted on work in the same way the window has shifted on what we think of as having 'the basics' has shifted .

Possibly but I was just expecting that I might have a better quality of life for having a better job than my parents (my job as a lawyer has existed for many many years, it's not a "new" type of job). But I don't. So I guess I'm going to have to adjust my expectations. As per the title of the thread

Happyher · 04/03/2025 16:13

If your disposable income has gone down then you can’t have everything you had before and have to cut your cloth accordingly. It’s a good way of working out what’s really important and essential and discarding the rest.

OddBoots · 04/03/2025 16:05

Don't most of us have better jobs than our parents? The old piecework and very manual jobs have been mechanised or don't exist at all. I don't think we can compare jobs with jobs in that way by generation - most jobs now need more education than our parents needed so something that was thought of as a 'very good job' (doctor, teacher, engineer, accountant etc) is now just a decent regular job and jobs that were thought of as decent regular jobs (retail, waiter, admin etc) are now thought of as entry level jobs.

The window has shifted on work in the same way the window has shifted on what we think of as having 'the basics' has shifted .

Nutmuncher · 04/03/2025 15:28

neverwakeasleepingbaby · 04/03/2025 12:53

It's the part about having comparatively "better" jobs for a worse standard of living in comparison to parents that some people can't seem to understand on here.

Yes you might know a pensioner down the road who is struggling, or a young person who is very wealthy. But when you compare my life with my parents' life, my job is "better" and pays more, but I live in a smaller house in a cheaper area, have much less free time because I work and my mum didn't.

Yes maybe I should adjust my expectations but it's not what I was expecting when I was working hard to establish a career instead of going travelling or whatever. It's disappointing, that's all.

Your point resonates hugely. Work hard at school and you too will have it all – said every Careers Advisor.

Erm, ok.

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 15:06

A major issue now is having to save up a big deposit whilst paying high rents

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 15:04

My parents & in-laws didn't have it easy but had it easier. Both bought London family homes on one professional salary; similar for most of my neighbours & school friends. Had more than 2dc & retired in early 60s. You need to be a very high earner to buy those homes now.

dottydodah · 04/03/2025 15:00

I think a lot of people look back and think their parents generation "had it easy"My parents moved from London in the 70s .Houses there have always been expensive .Mum worked PT, and my Stepdad did lots of overtime too.They rented their TV and we didnt go abroad bar once to Italy . COL high then as well.With DC things are always going to be a bit tight

Swipe left for the next trending thread