To think that women are still doing the brunt of childcare even on holiday?

Yes

what made you start the thread today over a week later? Just being nosy!

That’s such a shame as I know how difficult it is. My husband and I both work in very male dominated roles, engineering/construction, and it’s tough taking time away. It’s still unusual and I’m so proud of him for taking a stance on it and allowing us to both have time with our baby and progress our careers equally. Things are changing and I have seen more men doing this, hopefully it will soon be the norm and not an exception.

What’s the dynamic like between their parents

Oh this was half term! What made you start the thread today out of interest?

I often wonder how many dads are dads because they wanted it and how many just went along with it as it was what the woman wanted. I know its negative thinking but I do wonder about it sometimes.

I don't disagree with you OP. I am definitely the default parent at home because he's out most of the time. But on holiday we split everything 50/50. Never discussed it, just did it. We're both there so we both parent and we both get a break. I'll sit and read while he goes in pool with kids, I'll play a game with them while he works out, he'll cook dinner and I'll do bedtime. I wouldn't stand for anything less - we both deserve a break.

What happened on your holiday in terms of childcare Op? Or did you take your GC alone?

I noticed the opposite when I was in Tenerife at NY, the dads were very involved. However, thinking about it, they weren't English, maybe that makes a difference although it shouldn't.

DH used to do 4 long days at work when our DDs were little and had a day off mid week. Used to take them to toddler groups etc and everyone used to say how amazing he was! 🙄

I do remember one flight though when they were about 3 years old ... we boarded late and there was a single seat at the front and 3 further back. He leapt into that seat faster than I'd ever seen him move .... headphones on, book out, whilst I was wrangling two tots. I wasn't happy. He didn't even offer to swop half way.

But I think a lot of women prefer that. I can count the number of families I know where the man is the primary carer on half a hand.

Do they or is it the case they know that the father will resort to what is easiest for them (making them the “fun dad” who lets them do whatever they want as long as they don’t bother him) than what is better for the children and/or that the fathers will have family members stepping in, typically a female family member, often being their own mum or sister to take over?

Wasn’t there someone on MN who said “I’ll relax a lot more when you relax a lot less” to their husband while on holiday?

I was divorced with tween dc when I met my now dh. First marriage was awful and I was solely the carer for my dc. Exh did nothing at all.

So when dh mentioned having a child with me I initially refused. But we come to a compromise. I did want his baby but I was not going to be sacrificing my career and burning myself out this time around. I went back to work when baby was six months and dh became a sahd. And the attitudes and comments we had from people were appalling. His friends thought I was a controlling witch, his family felt so sorry for him because raising a child is so exhausting!. Like i didn't know lol. When I got in from work everything was 50/50 and it worked very well for us. When dc went off to school dh went back to work but he got broody again lol. So he did the same again but also I supported him to retrain in a new career. He wanted that quality time with his dc. His old career was too longer hours and travelling. He was a very present father.

And the relationship he now has with his dc is lovely to see. They go to him for help/advice just as much as me. They are close. They value his opinion. There's a lovely respect there.

It's a shame that people's attitudes to dads hasn't really changed and so little is expected from them. But I think we have to just be firm when we have dc and insist on them pulling their weight.

It's not your fault @MaybeIamJealous.

When I go on trips with female friends it's so relaxing. They organise stuff without being asked!

I had this initially, but I think some of it was of my own making. Now that DC are older and I'm disabled, DH has shown himself more than capable of taking on the extra work. He's taken DC on holidays without me, does all the taxiing to and from activities, checks homework etc and does at least 50% of the housework. I think when DC were younger and I was more capable, I "decided" things would be done my way and DH was kinda pushed aside. The only area DH doesn't pull his weight yet is in relation to the mental load, but I guess that's partly my fault too.

We went to Disneyland recently, with 5 kids. And I realised I was the only one up at 6am sorting clothes, the backpacks, snacks etc for the day before we would head to the park while everyone else slept. Including my husband. I was the one doing the baths, bedtimes etc too. It takes the good out of the holiday a little as he could have even let me lie on a bit one of the days until the kids were up but he didn’t want to as he was “on holiday”.

Because they can get away with being lazy selfish sods

My mum used to say 'going on holiday is just doing the same washing up in a different sink' 😢

My DH can’t understand why I’m not jumping for joy at using up annual leave doing more work and being more stressed than usual, which is what a holiday abroad amounts to with very small DC.
so we compromised this year and are doing it all again anyway, but this time I’ll be sign posting each and every time he makes my life harder. Should not have to, he’s an intelligent man and usually we are pretty even at home, but when he clicks in to holiday mode he expects me to happily pick up whatever he decides to put down. Whoopee fucking doo for me and my “relaxing holiday” 😒

Yes and this is why I don't want children tbh. Women are expected to work full time now and still don't most of the childcare and things around the house.

Yes I'm sure it does. It wasn't really an option for us because although he was entitled to it and in theory could have had it, in practice we know it would have affected his long term prospects at that company. It's a typically male industry in trade and construction, most men there don't even take the 2 weeks paternity leave, and colleagues raise their eyebrows when he has a day off in the holiday to do childcare. But it's a good job in a rural community, jobs don't come by often and although he could fight and 'be the change' we have to be pragmatic about it and think long term. So I feel like we are contributing to the problem in many ways and I suspect many people are in the same boat!
My company (I WFH for a company 2 hours away) is fantastic about promoting shared leave and it's absolutely normal there.

Maybe shared parental leave does have a bearing on this then? I did all the biologically female stuff, but everything else we shared. His paternity leave when I went back to work allowed him to be in sole charge. The shouts of mummy and daddy at night are even, possibly skewed more towards my husband as he’s a bit of a soft touch!!

As default parent, holidays aren't really holidays, just same shit, different location with less space and tools. Which is why DH wants to go away pretty well every opportunity he has and I'd like to spend some time at home doing a mic of local tourist stuff and chilling out or letting the kids chill out while we get some shit done together. He also likes to get away as soon as he's finished work if we've got no fixed transport booked - we had a big row at Christmas about him wanting an extra day at parents (9 rather than 8) while I wanted a day to catch up at home after he'd finished working before heading off.

Pattern always starts from the beginning, back when we were doing house renovations with a newborn it was always me that had to stop to do anything child related (including nappies) pretty well regardless of what I was doing - then I'd inevitably end up doing a feed and get them down for a nap while DH/ FIL got stuck into their next task which they couldn't possibly abandon while I had to restart my task which usually took longer to restart than it would have taken to finish at the time.

We still get issues where DH identifies as "quick" DIY task from the neverending list while I'm doing boring day to day stuff. This "quick" task takes 4 times his estimate and I have to stop in the middle of my task to sort kids and dinner when I really wanted to get something actually finished rather than 80% then left to get part undone.

And don't get me started on "done" means built but tools and mess going away isn't part of "done" before he's on to the next job.