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Original poster

To HATE the phrase "lived experience"?

557 replies

ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 06:36

Pet peeve incoming:

By definition, experience is lived! You can hardly have an experience without living it, fgs! And what's the opposite of lived experience? An experience that you've had, yet haven't lived? It's complete nonsense. It's used to sound falsely clever when an argument is weak, like "In my personal experience." Well, of course your experience is personal! You would hardly say, "In my neighbour's experience, I find Florida too cold in December."

And it's officially wrong, because it's a tautology. Like "top-floor penthouse."

I don't know whether it's the innate stupidity of the phrase or the fact that it's a linguistic fad that annoys me the most.

"stamps off"

OP posts:
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Original poster
ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 07:17

GretchenWienersHair · 03/03/2025 07:13

People have told you. Repeatedly. The entire thread is full of people telling you.

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No, they haven't. Not one person has been able to tell me how I can have an experience without living it.

I went on a cruise. Did I live that experience or not? If you can explain how I went on a cruise yet did not live through it, I'd love to hear it.

OP posts:
Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 07:17

ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 07:12

How on earth am I wrong? Please tell me how it's possible to have an experience without living it?

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Fuck me having an experience and having experience are different things! Perhaps look up a dictionary.

Original poster
ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 07:15

Sevenamcoffee · 03/03/2025 06:54

I have professional experience of autism because I professionally support people with autism, I have personal experience of autism because I know people who are autistic. I do not have lived experience of it because I do not have autism.

There are different kinds of experience.

No, you have professional experience of supporting people with autism. You do not have experience of autism, since you do not know what it's like to have it. Saying that you have experience of autism in this instance is short-hand for "I have experience of supporting people with autism."

OP posts:
RhaenysRocks · 03/03/2025 07:13

Sorry op but you are being pedantic and obtuse. A tautology is a very specific phrase where the two "sides" of a statement are identical eg "a triangle is three sided shape". Lived experience is not the same as, has been explained frequently, one can have professional, academic, second hand experience of something which they would usually state if commenting. Lived experience is another version of experience so not the same as just "experience".

GretchenWienersHair · 03/03/2025 07:13

ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 07:12

How on earth am I wrong? Please tell me how it's possible to have an experience without living it?

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People have told you. Repeatedly. The entire thread is full of people telling you.

BigBlueTeapot · 03/03/2025 07:13

I find the primacy and unassailability of lived experience irritating at the minute, working in autism.
I have worked with hundreds of autistic people over a 30 year career and have a very good understanding of autism, it's rich variety and the many ways it can impact people.
This is however of zero credibility compared with a highly verbal and communicative 20 year old autistic person who can demonstrate "lived experience" which is of course immensely valuable and can give wonderful insights - into their autism experience. They don't have lived experience of every facet of autism or of being pre-verbal or having learning disabilities as well as autism. I wish people would remember that, especially policy makers.

Original poster
ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 07:12

Clumsykitten · 03/03/2025 07:10

Quite. Such an odd thing to have a bee in your bonnet about. Even if they are right (which they aren’t) I couldn’t get worked up about this.

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How on earth am I wrong? Please tell me how it's possible to have an experience without living it?

OP posts:
Original poster
ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 07:11

If you visit Auschwitz to “experience” the horrors of if, have you lived it?

If anyone thinks they've experienced the horrors of Auschwitz by visiting the structures where the unspeakable occurred, they're in sore need of some reading.

I've visited the Bloody Chamber in the Tower of London. I did not experience torture there. I've experienced visiting the place where torture once occurred.

OP posts:
Clumsykitten · 03/03/2025 07:10

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 06:55

I get the impression OP has no intention of trying to understand.

Quite. Such an odd thing to have a bee in your bonnet about. Even if they are right (which they aren’t) I couldn’t get worked up about this.

Heylylaa · 03/03/2025 07:10

Do you mean it’s like saying “9am in the morning”?

RIPVPROG · 03/03/2025 07:09

I work in the justice system, I have lots of experience of criminal justice, I have never been subject to it it, been remanded/sentenced to custody etc. The term lived experience is used in my field rather than the term offender or ex offender which used to be the terms used. Someone who has been to prison has lived it, that's different to someone who works there. Policy development now includes lived experience perspectives or consultation, that's right, because their input will be different to mine. They have physically lived within the criminal justice system.

mellongoose · 03/03/2025 07:08

The OP is, in fact, correct.

GretchenWienersHair · 03/03/2025 07:08

ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 07:05

In my line of work, experience would relate to being a worker who supports people in need. Lived experience would relate to the person in need. For policy development, we'd want to consult both parties, for their different perspectives.

I will never respect the phrase "lived experience" because it's objectively wrong. It implies that it's possible to have experience that you haven't lived. If that isn't enough of a reason not to respect it, it's a tautology, which makes it objectively wrong. I will not respect language that is objectively wrong.

In the bolded paragraph, let's say the issue is domestic violence. The worker would never say that they had experience of domestic violence if they didn't. They would - or should - say that they have experience of supporting people who have experienced DV. The only person who has experience of domestic violence is the person to whom it happened.

If the worker was getting to know someone new, if they said "I have experience of domestic violence" the listener would assume they had been attacked. They would say that they have experience of working/supporting/listening to victims of DV.

It would be totally wrong to say that the worker had experience of DV and the victim had lived experience of it. The worker, in this scenario, only has experience of supporting the victims of DV.

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It implies that it's possible to have experience that you haven't lived. If that isn't enough of a reason not to respect it, it's a tautology, which makes it objectively wrong. I will not respect language that is objectively wrong.

If you visit Auschwitz to “experience” the horrors of if, have you lived it?

You're being pedantic. Language evolves. Phrases come in and out of use. It’s nothing new.

Arrivals4lucky · 03/03/2025 07:06

It’s 2 different things, and there are times when the distinction is important.

Original poster
ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 07:05

Clumsykitten · 03/03/2025 06:49

This is correct. And @ThisFluentBiscuit, it’s ok that you didn’t understand this before, but now you do, I hope you will respect it.

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In my line of work, experience would relate to being a worker who supports people in need. Lived experience would relate to the person in need. For policy development, we'd want to consult both parties, for their different perspectives.

I will never respect the phrase "lived experience" because it's objectively wrong. It implies that it's possible to have experience that you haven't lived. If that isn't enough of a reason not to respect it, it's a tautology, which makes it objectively wrong. I will not respect language that is objectively wrong.

In the bolded paragraph, let's say the issue is domestic violence. The worker would never say that they had experience of domestic violence if they didn't. They would - or should - say that they have experience of supporting people who have experienced DV. The only person who has experience of domestic violence is the person to whom it happened.

If the worker was getting to know someone new, if they said "I have experience of domestic violence" the listener would assume they had been attacked. They would say that they have experience of working/supporting/listening to victims of DV.

It would be totally wrong to say that the worker had experience of DV and the victim had lived experience of it. The worker, in this scenario, only has experience of supporting the victims of DV.

OP posts:
GretchenWienersHair · 03/03/2025 07:03

LillyPJ · 03/03/2025 07:01

There's a prime example of how the phrase isn't helpful! Someone else said it's whether it's a victim's experience. One definition I read said it's 'lived' if it's ongoing rather than in the past.

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It can be applied in many ways. These are all just examples of how the phrase can be used.

LillyPJ · 03/03/2025 07:01

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 06:56

It’s used to differentiate between professional experience and personal experience. Which are not the same thing.

There's a prime example of how the phrase isn't helpful! Someone else said it's whether it's a victim's experience. One definition I read said it's 'lived' if it's ongoing rather than in the past.

Sevenamcoffee · 03/03/2025 07:00

Someone could say I have experience of being a person with autism. But it is a bit of a mouthful and lived experience is much easier to say.

If working in support services you often have to differentiate between professionals with experience and those who use the services in order to involve them, for instance, in evaluating or designing services. ‘We need to ask people who have experience of living with schizophrenia’ is longer than ‘we need to ask people with lived experience’. People always look for shorter ways to say things.

WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 03/03/2025 06:58

@ThisFluentBiscuit so if you want a therapist experienced in autism that means they must be autistic?

Or a lawyer experienced in family law that means they must have been in a custody battle themselves?

LillyPJ · 03/03/2025 06:57

GretchenWienersHair · 03/03/2025 06:45

For example: you may have “experienced” racism/ableism/homophobia/other form of oppression by witnessing it and perhaps having some understanding of it, albeit limited. Someone black/disabled/gay/other will have the lived experience of dealing with the every day pressures of a racist/ableist/homophobic/other oppressive society.

Edited

You could also have so-called lived experience of racism by being a racist. Their perspective, abhorrent though it would be, would be just as 'lived'. You always need an explanation of the experience in order to understand the perspective. 'Lived experience' tells you nothing and making assumptions is dangerous.

Mydustymonstera · 03/03/2025 06:56

ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 06:52

So if you have experience of something, it's not necessarily first-hand experience? If I say that I have experience of cruising, it's possible that I mean I don't have first-hand experience of it? Come on.

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Exactly that. I think you’re just trying to wind people up actually.

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 06:56

It’s used to differentiate between professional experience and personal experience. Which are not the same thing.

Igotjelly · 03/03/2025 06:55

I get the impression OP has no intention of trying to understand.

icanatilldancetowhigfield · 03/03/2025 06:55

OP you obviously haven't understood what it means in a professional sense and have heard it applied wrongly. It's now been explained and there's nothing left to argue. I didn't know the difference either really, have read this thread and now I do.

Emberemember · 03/03/2025 06:54

ThisFluentBiscuit · 03/03/2025 06:54

Your co-worder has experience of working in immigration. You have experience of being an immigrant. It's not hard.

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Agree.