To HATE the phrase "lived experience"?

ThisFluentBiscuit · 2025-03-03T06:36:44+00:00

Pet peeve incoming: By definition, experience is lived! You can hardly have an experience without living it, fgs! And what's the opposite of lived experience? An experience that you've had, yet haven't lived? It's complete nonsense. It's used to sound falsely clever when an argument is weak, like "In my personal experience." Well, of course your experience is personal! You would hardly say, "In my neighbour's experience, I find Florida too cold in December." And it's officially wrong, because it's a tautology. Like "top-floor penthouse." I don't know whether it's the innate stupidity of the phrase or the fact that it's a linguistic fad that annoys me the most. "stamps off"

Grammarnut · 05/03/2025 13:44

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 17:45

😱

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Thanks, happy with bad style. Don't like being beaten over the head by someone's lived experience, however.

LillyPJ · 05/03/2025 09:40

LeaderBee · 04/03/2025 15:34

I've got experience of the middle ages because I read some books about it; I don't have a lived experience of it, because I wasn't around back then to see how it "Actually" was.

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You do not have experience of the Middle Ages though. Reading about something isn't experiencing it.

Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 05/03/2025 03:39

Really fighting the urge!

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Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 05/03/2025 03:35

Emberemember · 05/03/2025 01:33

Zippy has lived experience of his zip while you just have experience of zips in general, OP

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Mmhmhmm-MHHMHMHMMMMM! 😂

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Emberemember · 05/03/2025 01:33

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 22:58

The above is supposed to be a gif.

Edited

Zippy has lived experience of his zip while you just have experience of zips in general, OP

Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 22:58

The above is supposed to be a gif.

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Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 22:55

Must. Stay. Quiet.

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Youcalyptus · 04/03/2025 22:13

I actually agree that it's good to know what signals your language sends and to be aware of relevant conventions. You should always be using the tool to create an effect consciously and with intention.

But that's not the same as saying GrAMMaR hAZ 2 BE cORReKT!!!!! with the insane commitment of a 1762 Latin scholar who's just laboriously applied the principles of the study of those languages to English and thinks he's onto something.

MassageForLife · 04/03/2025 21:53

Little bit melodramatic, op. Frightening indeed 😆

Many people have explained that there is a valid reason for the differentiation of different types of experience. Good thing none of us are so easily scared!

madamweb · 04/03/2025 21:30

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 14:53

It is absolutely frightening how many people do not understand that tautologies are bad grammar and incorrect English, and even more scary that they think incorrect English is just fine and dandy.

As a book editor, looks like I'll never be out of a job, at least! 😂

Frightening?

Why frightening?

Language is rich and evolving. And perfect and precise grammar is really only required in certain contexts

Youcalyptus · 04/03/2025 20:03

It is absolutely frightening how many people do not understand that tautologies are bad grammar and incorrect English, and even more scary that they think incorrect English is just fine and dandy

You never studied pragmatics or sociolinguistics, right? Shoulda done History of the English Language instead of the foreign language option in your famous BA/MA.

Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 18:12

MissDoubleU · 04/03/2025 18:11

I think one of the most beautiful things about language, and the English language being no exception, is that it is a living and constantly evolving thing. Words that did not exist, that many people fervently deny being “correct” or “real” are being entered into the Oxford dictionary every single year. This is because it isn’t fixed and never can be.

Updated terms like “lived experience” often come about for legal reasons, where there is further clarification needed and no room for interpretation can be left. As has been expressed many times, there needs to be a simple clarification between the experience of Ableism by the carer and the experience of Ableism by the disabled person. Lived experience is a simple and accurate way to do this and realistically, it is not confusing in the least. Not unless you are being deliberately obtuse.

struggles with paws to undo zipped mouth 😂

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MissDoubleU · 04/03/2025 18:11

I think one of the most beautiful things about language, and the English language being no exception, is that it is a living and constantly evolving thing. Words that did not exist, that many people fervently deny being “correct” or “real” are being entered into the Oxford dictionary every single year. This is because it isn’t fixed and never can be.

Updated terms like “lived experience” often come about for legal reasons, where there is further clarification needed and no room for interpretation can be left. As has been expressed many times, there needs to be a simple clarification between the experience of Ableism by the carer and the experience of Ableism by the disabled person. Lived experience is a simple and accurate way to do this and realistically, it is not confusing in the least. Not unless you are being deliberately obtuse.

Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 17:45

EBearhug · 04/03/2025 17:32

They are not bad grammar. They may be bad style (and you will note my use of a verbal form suggesting it is not always definitively so,) but poor style may be expressed in perfectly correct grammar.

One could infer something about the quality of modern editing skills...

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😱

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EBearhug · 04/03/2025 17:32

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 14:53

It is absolutely frightening how many people do not understand that tautologies are bad grammar and incorrect English, and even more scary that they think incorrect English is just fine and dandy.

As a book editor, looks like I'll never be out of a job, at least! 😂

They are not bad grammar. They may be bad style (and you will note my use of a verbal form suggesting it is not always definitively so,) but poor style may be expressed in perfectly correct grammar.

One could infer something about the quality of modern editing skills...

AshKeys · 04/03/2025 16:49

LeaderBee · 04/03/2025 15:34

I've got experience of the middle ages because I read some books about it; I don't have a lived experience of it, because I wasn't around back then to see how it "Actually" was.

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I have experience of middle age. Not sure if I should say sadly because my youth has long gone, or gladly because, as they say, it is better than the alternative….

Grammarnut · 04/03/2025 16:07

MissDoubleU · 04/03/2025 14:42

No. Saying you have “experienced” and that you have “Experience of” are very different, with very different connotations. I was also merely using SA as a different analogy to racism/ableism.

What the average person thinks and what is linguistically correct are very different things, too!

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I have experienced homelessness - as a child. I find the phrase 'experience of' in that context akin to saying 'I have got a book' - 'got' is grammatically wrong there, and 'of' is redundant after experience. Lived in front of experience is redundant and horrible English.

Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 15:38

MissDoubleU · 04/03/2025 15:36

Being a bit pedantic about where exactly on the scale you fall there, aren’t ye?

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😂😂😂 I'm serious! I read a jacket and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with it, and they come back with twenty corrections! THEY drive ME nuts!!

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Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 15:37

Me shutting up.

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Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 15:36

I'm shutting up on this topic now. 🤭Promise.

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MissDoubleU · 04/03/2025 15:36

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 15:34

....Someone on here called me pedantic. I'm actually very mild in my pedantry compared to my colleagues. In fact, I'm the least pedantic in the department.

Being a bit pedantic about where exactly on the scale you fall there, aren’t ye?

Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 15:34

....Someone on here called me pedantic. I'm actually very mild in my pedantry compared to my colleagues. In fact, I'm the least pedantic in the department.

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LeaderBee · 04/03/2025 15:34

LillyPJ · 03/03/2025 06:51

I've looked at various definitions online - all slightly different - and they really don't help. If you say you have experience, you then need to go on to describe it so people know your perspective. Saying 'lived experience' implies you've got some special knowledge but it doesn't actually mean anything. All experience is lived.

I've got experience of the middle ages because I read some books about it; I don't have a lived experience of it, because I wasn't around back then to see how it "Actually" was.

Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 14:54

Katbum · 04/03/2025 09:03

Omg OP! You are seriously on a mission to wind up the whole of mumsnet. Trying to explain to a midwife what is and isn’t her role…seriously. If you’re like this in real life how do you not walk around with permanent black eyes?!

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I'm quite sure that our authors want to punch us regularly. Poor little things, having their books made readable! 😂

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Original poster

ThisFluentBiscuit · 04/03/2025 14:53

It is absolutely frightening how many people do not understand that tautologies are bad grammar and incorrect English, and even more scary that they think incorrect English is just fine and dandy.

As a book editor, looks like I'll never be out of a job, at least! 😂

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