To wonder why a parent would intentionally ruin their child’s self esteem?

I agree with everything except

1. I think they abuse their child because it's a form of control. The child is an extension of themselves so must be perfect in order to be seen by others as perfect as be praised for it. The relationship doesn't matter, all that matters is the result. So they need total submission. They dont even consider the child is a separate entity with valid feelings. All they care is the external validation.

This is exactly what my Mum did too.

My Mum and Dad were very dismissive and unsupportive of my first career. Didn’t think I was making the right choice, didn’t think I would make it, etc. etc. Fast forward about fifteen years and they met a couple of girls on holiday in pretty much the same career. They couldn’t stop singing their praises. They were wonderful, independent, go getting career girls apparently.

Despite being very capable, I have completely under achieved due to poor confidence and low self esteem.

I have no answer OP and I'm sorry you experienced this.

My own mother made a point of telling me how disappointed she was with me (because I didn't have the aptitude for the subjects she though I should be good at).
I wasn't allowed privacy because when I got home from school she went through my schoolbag to see what was in it. She opened my mail (not that I got a lot) and I grew up having no self confidence and no idea about boundaries.

I worked hard at the subjects I was good at, put myself through Uni in another city by working p/t, got a qualification and never went home.
By 21 I was running my own business and she was telling all the neighbours how wonderful I was.

I got to 35 before I had some therapy to help me to forgive her and even now I'm not sure that I have.

I get you OP. My mother used to say nearly all of those things to me too. And i regularly got whacked for getting on her nerves.

But on the flip side, as I got older she allowed me enough freedom to build up some resilience. I’ve no doubt it was to get me out of her company as much as possible but it did mean that I was able to move out at 17, travel the world at a young age and can adapt to most life situations. I always suffered low self esteem but I’ve worked through it and don’t suffer it anymore. My mother has also had a very tough life with some really traumatic incidents and she and I are completely different people. It’s sad, but it is what it is.

With my own, I have never called him names (apart from positive ones!) and even when he is trying my patience I am more like to say something like “that behaviour isn’t acceptable” rather than “why are you always so naughty” - just a slight change in language is all people need!

I think it's mostly because of how they were parented themselves. That's a reason not an excuse. Well done to those who broke the cycle, my mum included. We all leave childhood with emotional scars and there are many who aren't able to put their kids first as a result. It is often about how being a kid made them feel, learnt behaviour and emotions that they felt as a child being brought up again. I am by no means a perfect parent but I think the most important thing is being able to apologise for your mistakes to your child. And to see them as a whole person rather than an extension or reflection of you.

The overall reason is that anyone can become a parent, there are no tests to pass or checks on suitability. So you end up with a lot of people having children who are completely incapable of raising them well.

Sub-reasons are:

1. They see the child as an extension of themselves and abusing them is a form of self-abuse, giving them the kind of punishment they feel they deserve themselves.
2. They are only able to deal with the immediate issue in front of them and have no concept of how it might impact on the child in future.
3. They were raised in a rather fucked up manner and see that as the normal way to raise a child (which makes sense, 18 years of being brought up in a certain manner will lead one to think that way).

Mine hated confident girls. “Shes got a lot off “ she would say with disgust ie look a confident girl . She is a real misogynist, told my daughter that men are better teachers and boys are better at maths . But yes deeply unhappy.

I had that. “You’ll never be able to run a house” and having to do a job say putting the washing out and her going mental if I’d not done it properly. Mine was just very unhappy, hated her life hated my dad , was very emotionally immature and used me as a therapist /surrogate husband.

Hmm not sure I agree. I think ok on occasions to criticise the behaviour but not the person so the “you are” statements are wrong . Labels do damage as you take on that thing as who you are. So I’m a lazy person I’m a shy person.

Narcissistic mother here. I can relate to people's posts here. The best thing I did was to start psychotherapy 6 months ago.
It's very expensive but really worth it.
Mother is late 70s and still horrible. The day she dies i wont be able to feel anything, just relief. This is something I can't say IRL but it is the pure truth.
The one thing I learned in my sessions is that she can't change and never will. That there is no point to ask yourself why she cant change. It's liberating in a strange way. If you think about it, the worse part is for us to try to understand and try to be liked/ accepted all your life,tin a neverending cycle of pain.

When you don't have to keep trying there is peace. Its all about boundaries and not allowing the abuse. There is always an enabler, in this case my dad. I do see my parents very little. Now I just say in a calm way: I am not going to continue this conversation (when the mad ranting/ criticism starts, even on the phone). Its for ME and not for HER anymore. I don't try to make her understand anything I just set boundaries and I'm prepared to leave.
I still have a long way ahead of me. I don't trust myself. I'm always worried about failing. I'm unssasertive. But now its onwards and upwards.
And have a great relationship with DH and my children. That also immensely help.

I would just recommend if you are in the position to save money, to invest in therapy.

You’re not the only one and it’s hard undoing what was said and done during our childhood that’s for sure x

I think obviously parents who tell a child they are fat are desperately trying to shame the child into losing weight. Its a denial of their own accountability for the child gaining such weight to begin with.

In describing as "spoilt"

Were they describing you, or a behaviour?

I sometimes talk seriously to my child about them displaying spoilt behaviour and that its not nice & i don't want to see it.

I have just posted almost the same question… before I saw yours.
My mum criticised me nonstop… my father praised me nonstop- why has my mum’s taken hold and still affects me over a decade since she died.?
I don’t know but I’m fed up with feeling not good enough. And I spend so much time telling my kids how amazing they are- bc I don’t want them to feel how my brother and I do.

It does seem to be really common unfortunately. As a child you feel like it's only you, and then you grow up and hear stories like this all the time.
It's strange that it mainly seems to be mothers towards daughters, and useless dads who either stay silent or leave and start new lives.
God knows why, I couldn't imagine treating any child this way, let alone one I'd given birth to.

Felt sad about some of my childhood and reading these posts realise it's quite common. My mum started to publicly put me down from age 8, said I was too fat to wear clothes like my friends. I wasnt though and as I grew older I did become a very overweight teen. Then it became funny to her that I looked more like her. I managed to lose a lot but the result was excess skin, low self confidence and life long eating problems. I hate to say it but it's like she wanted me to ruin my body, abilities, mental/physical health. When I slimmed down I never got a well done. On top she used to tell lies about me to whomever she could. It's such destructive behaviour from the one person in the world who should love you the most. I ended up being alienated from so many due to what was wrongfully said about me. When I needed help or support I could barely get any. I struggled to build a life but got there in the end.

That’s the good that comes out of it I think, we’d never treat our dc like this and go on to have happy dc with good lives.

I think mine resented me because she got pregnant at 17 and felt she had to marry a man who didn't love her. He left and her resentment towards me just got worse.
I was told regularly that she wished she'd an abortion, that I was a dirty ugly smelly little cunt, how no one would ever love me. She enjoyed making me upset and she hated it when I learnt how to not react.
I went no contact years ago, I don't really care about why she was this way, she's a vile piece of shit and theirs no excuse for treating a little girl this way. Not to blow my own trumpet but I'm a brilliant mum, my child has never felt anything but love from me.

Sorry haven't read the whole thread but the whole seen and not heard thing really resonated.
i was made to feel shit for being loud and chatty and outgoing like it was some sort of crime.
I was never food enough
Never quiet enough
Never lady like enough
Just never enough
She was born mid 1930s
Well fuck her. I have made a living out of my good interpersonal skills
My job is all about it.
I would never do to my kids what she did to me.
i can never quite shake the "not good enough" voice out of my head though.
I haven't seen her in over a decade and I have stopped the fucked up rot from going down a generation but I will never understand why she did ot

Mine was just a pure and simple narcissist. Can’t bear anybody to do better than her. You’re a threat if you achieve anything. She ruined our prospects. It’s very hard trying to work out why your dm says such horrible things and never supports, just attacks. All three siblings have chronic pain and health problems, whilst she’s absolutely fine in her late 80s. Df died young, probably from the stress she created. She can’t help it but by god the damage she does to people.

Thank you.

I do sometimes wonder who I'd have been,what a success I may have become if I wasn't broken as a child. I truly believed I was stupid and useless until my late thirties.

I'm not. Now as an adult I can see that my intelligence is actually quite exceptional, I pick things up very quickly and I wrote my Master's degree with ease mostly while very hungover but I picked a stupid degree because I had no doubt that I was far too thick to be anything. I just wanted to survive, I had no ambition because all I wanted was to remain alive, I couldn't see a future for myself because 'I'm so useless'.

I try to not be bitter, but I would be lying if I said I didn't sometimes wonder what might've been. I won't even go INTO what my relationships have been like.

In my case it was according to my parents "because your sister had to stand in your shadow "

so they knocked me down to level us up .

I don't know but my MIL used to do it to DH and he has called our toddler an idiot a few times to her face as a result (learned behaviour from his own childhood). I quickly put a stop to it, especially when she at one point called herself an idiot and it broke my heart. He recognises it and has been really good at stopping it but it's sad that the generation before didn't do the same. It was a different style of parenting and putting a child in his or her place was the main aim, I guess. Not all parents were like that, of course, but it certainly want something that was quite as frowned on as it is today.