To think it is naive to assume Russian troll farms don’t target massive high traffic discussion forums like Mumsnet to post misinformation

Yes of course Mumsnet is subject to this and other forms of trolling, it makes perfect sense to target the site in this way.

As I said yesterday, Mumsnet is aware that the site is subject to coordinated trolling...and they will act - when it is in their interests to act:

My post yesterday as I'm not going to type same out again:

Justine is clearly aware this is happening and that the site is being manipulated in this way - she references trolls and bad faith actors in her own recent posts when Mumsnet removed posts "stirring up conflict" regarding handling of abuse images by the site.

JustineMumsnet 4/2/25
"It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened."
www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5267612-update-from-mnhq-addressing-the-recent-images-posted-on-the-site

However 'when it is in their interests to act' is the critical part...because Mumsnet is a business with profit as it's main consideration ..lots of the trolling activity is actually money generating as there more hits on the site, more genuine posters invested in the threads and subsequently more adverts being viewed. Which is where the money comes from.

So Mumsnet is not incentivised to act a lot of the time, as tackling this can work against financial interests. They will tackle when it takes the form of a direct hit on the site itself, as Justine has intimated above.

There is analysis that can be done to identify bots...IPN addresses associated with certain VPN accounts etc but it is doubtful Mumsnet will explore this more carefully due to the reasons I have given. If it ever works against Mumsnet financially, it will be at that stage there is incentive to act.

If you want to explore the impact of this activity on people and is worth having a read of the Asch conformity experiments; basically if enough people around you are saying black is white it can be enough for you to come to believe black is white yourself, or at least come to say it in front of others. Asch demonstrated this by putting actors in his experiments with unknowing research subjects...the research subjects doubted their own minds when surrounded with these actors, yielded what they knew to be true and conformed to the lies the actors gave.

So this is clearly a massive win to be gained by bad actors, and hugely worth investing in.

www.simplypsychology.org/asch-conformity.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments

I think Mumsnet gets visits from the troll farms of many major powers. UK, EU, US, Russian and Chinese.

You really think only Russia tries to influence people online?

People are very naive if they think this isn't happening on MN and all over social media. I'm sure there was a report on Brexit influence that mentioned Russian bots or misinformation farms posting on both sides of the debate to rile up unrest. Some of it is easy to spot. Some is quite subtle.

Totally agree and the vaccine thing is especially worrying given the site's demographic.

Nobody is wasting time, it's an automated process set up to flood internet fora with garbage.

most people on here are capable of challenging the tripe. I tend to just click away and not let them waste my time. What's the point of arguing with a computer.

Definitely. Russian disinformation isn’t just about outlandish claims it’s about nudging and influencing people to believe their narratives (especially on Ukraine). Mumsnet HQ should have an mis/disinformation policy and response capacity just as most other big digital platforms do.

Taking the politics out of it, what about health misinformation? What if harmful actors start a disinformation campaign about measles vaccines. Will they just allow it?

This is happening on other forums and platforms across the world but especially targeting European democracies that support Ukraine - and it is blinkered to believe as a leading British online forum mumsnet is somehow an exception. I hope Mumsnet will do something to respond on this one.

100% agree with this.

There's a huge difference between disinformation with an agenda and general nonsense

One is state backed and part of Russia's war on the west.

One is just fluff

If platforms had squashed all the obvious bots that were stirring up froth in the lead up to the Brexit referendum we maybe wouldn't have given Putin that massive victory

Hosting an internet forum comes with huge responsibilities in an age when we know Putin is funding vast buildings full of people to spread disinformation through chat rooms and social media sites. That's not a supposition or a rumour. It's a known fact.

If Mumsnet want to shrug and say "not our problem" then they are complicit.

The point of it all is not to convince us of things. It is to disrupt the conversation so we can't rationally discuss facts and everyone ends up not being able to believe anything.

The line is you can't trust the mainstream media and you can't trust social media and you can't trust talk forums.

Then you are left in a fog of confusion about what's going on. Which makes it easier for those who want to to do things...

I noticed a number of new threads started by what looked like bots immediately following the US election. Annoying, and puts me off using the site.

A thread on here yesterday asks/answers the same thing. Interesting and scary reading.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5284932-bots-what-are-they-in-simple-terms?page=2&reply=142552295

They do but both sides are at it.

On a point of order, it's disinformation that is the problem, not misinformation. There is a difference.

We should report the former and argue with the latter.

HQ did used to remove disinformation posts, that said, and they now don't seem so keen, expecting posters to spot it. It is countered then by posters who definitely are not paid for this voluntary task. A large website should not be relying on us to police the spread of disinformation.

All that happens os that posters then plop the deliberate lies from thread to thread and then others fall for it, see it, quote it. As planned.

I would add this is not unique to Ukraine. See also, anti vaxx.

Did it have to be a blazing row? It's not a good thing for friends and neighbours to be at each others throats
No - it was very unpleasant and I regret it. It just escalated and unfortunately neither of us stopped it. We have previously agreed never to discuss politics - don't really know why it happened

But real, non-bot posters post nonsense and untrue things all the time! Presumably you want MN to zap all of them too? If not, where do they draw the line?

I think this is a large part of it. As fewer people look to mainstream news sources they instead look at X or Substack,YouTube, Reddit whatever other, and you have people living alongside one another who see things in a very different light.

Did it have to be a blazing row? It's not a good thing for friends and neighbours to be at each others throats

I've had a blazing row with a friend (who is also a work colleague) who thinks Trump's approach to Ukraine is the right one, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just brainwashed by only reading and listening to mainstream media (rather than doing independent research on youtube etc.).
I may think she's barking mad on this - but she definitely isn't a bot).

It’s not just Russians, although they are currently waging a massive information war. Basically, whoever has money can distort political debate to a massive degree with an army of trolls.

There’s a lot of political manipulation on social media.

I am currently seeing a lot of posts about Autism and special needs in AIBU. I suspect someone wants to make invisible disabilities the next target for cuts in education and benefits. No idea which party or who. But if it was a genuine question, why not post it on the SEN boards? Not much traffic there, but enough to get an informed answer.

As well as the Russians, there are literally tens of millions of Americans who think Trump is the bee's knees. We can't discount the possibility that some of them might post on here occasionally, or even (gasp!) that one or two Brits might have been infected by the same virus.

@TemporaryPosition, is that a popular RT joke? It should be - great way to (try to) make your citizens feel less shit about living in a mafia state where news media are state-controlled and dissenters are intimidated, if not sent to prison or shot, poisoned, or thrown out of windows.
You'd want them to think others have it worse and don't even know it, so they can at least feel smug in their daily misery.
In reality no one is as good as Russia when it comes to propaganda. But on this occasion, they'll soon learn it's a lost cause in the West... I do wish MN just deleted the obvious bot threads and posts.

Tbh I always assume that.

@mummytalking

An American person and a Russian get on a plane in Moscow and start talking. The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and is on his way to learn American propaganda techniques. The American, puzzled, asks, "What American propaganda techniques?" The Russian replies, "Exactly."

For me there is a difference between someone having a different opinion to me and someone either being a bot or a very strange poster.
For example:

• Wanting support for Ukraine to stop or thinking that Trump is doing a good job

I absolutely disagree with you and will argue with you by presenting my own opinion supported by facts. Since this is a discussion forum you'll probably do the same and convince me or we'll both keep our stances. I would not believe you are a bot why would I

• Saying Ukraine has received 350 billion

That is just blatantly false and I wonder what those posters motivations are. Either they are very ignorant in which case factual sources should convince them or yes I believe they are bots. I know factchecking isn't a thing anymore on other social media sites but I wish MN would still do it. Misinformation is dangerous. Funnily enough those posters always flounce when you prove them wrong.

Yup

Ironically (or, as you well know, as the case may be), that's a very Russian bot thing to say. When they can't convince you with twisted logic and lies, they turn to "Ooooh but who can you really believe?". If you have no concern about specific bots on MN, feel free to carry on believing nothing...