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To think the Republican Party need to wake up and find their spine?

256 replies

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/03/2025 18:39

The Republican Party are responsible for President Trump. Given that they have a majority in both Houses and on the Supreme Court, they are the only ones who can prevent him further damaging the US and its citizens.

Their fear and appeasement of the bully Trump has only made him stronger, but we are where we are and can only go from here.

AIBU to think Republicans need to find their spine, guts and voice to stop appeasing/placating Trump and do their duty for the American people?

OP posts:
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GiraffesAtThePark · 04/03/2025 21:14

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 20:52

Is all you can do is name call? Emotional personal attacks? Or can you debate the issue at hand?

I don't understand if everyone hates Trump and the European countries agree with Zelensky, why don't they just get on with it and continue the war till the last man standing? All people keep doing is Trump bashing. What does that achieve? The European countries got together the other day in the UK. They can put all their money together, send their armies to Ukraine and fight till the last man standing if that's what they want.

Why is everyone so bothered about Trump. Get on with it. Go over to Ukraine and fight alongside them. Send your money over. Do something other than just bash Trump, which serves absolutely no purpose at all. Put your energy into Ukraine and not Trump - why waste your energy on him? Europe talks the talk, now let them walk the walk. Who needs America anyway?

Edited

I am responding to the issue at hand which is asking why the republicans won’t stand up to Trump. It’s not name calling to point out that someone who publicly called Trump an idiot and reprehensible and who is now Trump’s vice president might actually not have principles. If you think someone is reprehensible you don’t support them - if you have principles.

Londonrach1 · 04/03/2025 21:13

Sadly they won't...they agree with him.

LifeExperience · 04/03/2025 21:10

OneLemonDog · 04/03/2025 20:40

It's because we mistakenly believed the US to be honorable allies. I don't imagine anyone will make that mistake again.

Good. We are not reliable allies, never have been, because we have a strong isolationist streak. George Washington, in his farewell speech to the nation, warned us against "entangling alliances." Thomas Jefferson reiterated that in his inauguration speech. The Constitution makes entering a treaty very difficult, requiring a 2/3 majority of the Senate to do so. It makes leaving treaties very easy. The US can leave NATO with only a 1 year notice to...the US. That's how the NATO treaty is written, because there is no way anything more stringent would ever have been approved by 2/3 of the Senate.

The last 80 years, where we expanded our military presence all over the world and expended our blood and treasure until we are 37 Trillion dollars in debt, is an anomaly. It took the Germans bombing our ships to get us into WW1 and Pearl Harbor to get us into WW2. Afghanistan really was the end fof warmongering for the majority of Americans. 20 years, thousands of US and allied forces dead, millions of Afghanis dead, and for what? So the Taliban could take over again and deny basic human rights to half their population?

We have a huge landmass protected by 2 oceans and the largest, best trained and best equipped military on the planet. We don't need allies. We have us.

itsnotabouthepasta · 04/03/2025 21:05

No need to continually talk about America. European countries get on with it - what's the problem

fine. Go ahead and be isolationist. No skin off my nose. But when you are at war with Russia because Trump has had a Barney with his best bud Vlad, don’t expect the rest of the world to come to your support.

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 21:00

OneLemonDog · 04/03/2025 20:50

"It was agreed..."

Was it? There was nothing in writing.

It was Gorbachev who intially claimed there was an oral agreement then, in later years, he admitted there was not.

Russia has, seemingly, since decided to pretend there was one in order to justify its aggression.

Pretend? Really? Is that where you are going with this?
Only a fool would be shocked that Russia invaded Ukraine when everyone knew NATO was not to expand any further East. They all know.
As I said, either people are total fools or this was a deliberate move by people to instigate this situation.

Regardless, if you don't agree with Trump America then Europe can step up with money, equipment and soldiers and keep going with the war. No one is stopping them, European countries can fly out soldiers in a few days to Ukraine.
No need to continually talk about America. European countries get on with it - what's the problem?

OneLemonDog · 04/03/2025 21:00

LifeExperience · 04/03/2025 20:36

Read the Budapest Treaty, because you don't have any idea what you're talking about. The Budapest Treaty has three signatories--the US, the UK, and Russia. All 3 signatories are required to do the same thing: respect Ukraine's territorial integrity and let the UN know if Ukraine is attacked by nuclear weapons. There are NO OTHER OBLIGATIONS under the agreement. The US has already done much, much, much more for Ukraine than it is required to do under ANY treaty or other instrument of obligation. The billions donated were out of the goodness of Americans' hearts, not because there was any requirement in international law for the US to protect Ukraine.

Now after 3 years of massive bloodshed and billions of dollars we've said we'll only continue if there's some payback. For that we're called everything but decent people. Europe will have to hate us free from now on, because we're done paying and paying and paying for your defense.

"Goodness of American hearts" or "American strategic interests"?

I'd say that it's very clearly the latter. That's fine, of course, NATO itself is/was a strategic alliance, but let's not pretend it was all down to altruism.

For the last 80 years, the US has favored world stability and soft power, now it's more interested in isolation and flexing it's military and economic might to extort other countries.

That's it's perogative, but obviously it means that most other countries are going to view the US as a threat and, generally, a force for evil.

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/03/2025 20:58

He could be impeached @sleepwouldbenice.

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 04/03/2025 20:57

@Odin2018, this isn't a thread about Ukraine. If that's what you want to discuss there are plenty other threads on Mnet, or you could start your own.

This is a thread about Republicans taking a stand for America. They are responsible for Trump and he's wrecking the country.

OP posts:
LifeExperience · 04/03/2025 20:52

sleepwouldbenice · 02/03/2025 02:22

Thanks for the information. Bonkers isn't it! And I mean that whomever is in power

Accountability ? Challenge? I mean prime minister's question time in the UK can be a farce, but where is the democracy in just not having to answer to anyone?

The President is answerable to the American people and every 4 years we elect a new one. In between those elections the Constitution gives the Executive wide latitude to enact his policies. That's why Biden stayed president for his full term even though he had obvious dementia. It's difficult bordering on impossible to remove a president and has never been done.

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 20:52

GiraffesAtThePark · 04/03/2025 20:44

The problem is that if you were an honourable person then you probably wouldn’t be in their position. Rubio and Vance have previously stated how terrible Trump is but they’re sycophants now. No principles. And those that have spoken up in the past have been rounded on and attacked.

Is all you can do is name call? Emotional personal attacks? Or can you debate the issue at hand?

I don't understand if everyone hates Trump and the European countries agree with Zelensky, why don't they just get on with it and continue the war till the last man standing? All people keep doing is Trump bashing. What does that achieve? The European countries got together the other day in the UK. They can put all their money together, send their armies to Ukraine and fight till the last man standing if that's what they want.

Why is everyone so bothered about Trump. Get on with it. Go over to Ukraine and fight alongside them. Send your money over. Do something other than just bash Trump, which serves absolutely no purpose at all. Put your energy into Ukraine and not Trump - why waste your energy on him? Europe talks the talk, now let them walk the walk. Who needs America anyway?

GiraffesAtThePark · 04/03/2025 20:51

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 20:41

It was agreed that NATO would not branch out any further East. What does Ukraine want and started negotiations to do? Join NATO.
.......and then everyone is shocked when Russia invades. Any fool should be able to deduce that this is exactly what would happen. Either they are fools or deliberately wanted this to happen.

Edited

No treaty signed by NATO Allies and Russia ever included provisions that NATO cannot take on new members. That’s just Kremlin talk to justify their invasion.

OneLemonDog · 04/03/2025 20:50

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 20:41

It was agreed that NATO would not branch out any further East. What does Ukraine want and started negotiations to do? Join NATO.
.......and then everyone is shocked when Russia invades. Any fool should be able to deduce that this is exactly what would happen. Either they are fools or deliberately wanted this to happen.

Edited

"It was agreed..."

Was it? There was nothing in writing.

It was Gorbachev who intially claimed there was an oral agreement then, in later years, he admitted there was not.

Russia has, seemingly, since decided to pretend there was one in order to justify its aggression.

itsnotabouthepasta · 04/03/2025 20:49

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 20:41

It was agreed that NATO would not branch out any further East. What does Ukraine want and started negotiations to do? Join NATO.
.......and then everyone is shocked when Russia invades. Any fool should be able to deduce that this is exactly what would happen. Either they are fools or deliberately wanted this to happen.

Edited

Any fool knew that the dictator putin was desperate to recreate the USSR so it was just surprise that Ukraine wanted protection. Putin had repeatedly broken ceasefire agreements and couldn’t be trusted.

in my entire lifetime it’s been known that Putin is a dictator. This isn’t new information.

Myfamilys · 04/03/2025 20:48

Trump is going to cause irreparable damage to the USA itself. Firstly the economy is nose diving and will get worse with the tarrifs. Wait for the reaction of the American people when the automotive industry predict car prices to rise by up to 25% as the parts mostly are made in Mexico and Canada.
Militarily Russia, Iran and China are laughing at his weaknesses and will now start pushing with possible invasions into Taiwan and former Soviet states. Trump forgets despite his love for Putin that Russia despise every freedom America used to stand for and is it's oldest enemy. Worst of all 50% of America voted and only just over 50% of that 50% voted Trump so it is literally tearing American society apart. The only American that hrs may make it great for is his mate Musk but he's reported to have lost close to a billion dollars in new Tesla sales already. The man is ruining a once great allie

GiraffesAtThePark · 04/03/2025 20:44

The problem is that if you were an honourable person then you probably wouldn’t be in their position. Rubio and Vance have previously stated how terrible Trump is but they’re sycophants now. No principles. And those that have spoken up in the past have been rounded on and attacked.

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 20:41

It was agreed that NATO would not branch out any further East. What does Ukraine want and started negotiations to do? Join NATO.
.......and then everyone is shocked when Russia invades. Any fool should be able to deduce that this is exactly what would happen. Either they are fools or deliberately wanted this to happen.

OneLemonDog · 04/03/2025 20:40

LifeExperience · 04/03/2025 20:38

Take that up with your government at the time.

It's because we mistakenly believed the US to be honorable allies. I don't imagine anyone will make that mistake again.

Maitri108 · 04/03/2025 20:40

LifeExperience · 04/03/2025 20:38

Take that up with your government at the time.

It was to do with NATO.

We did take it up with the government; over a million protested.

However the point remains, lives were lost and a lot of our tax spent on another one of your wars.

LifeExperience · 04/03/2025 20:38

Maitri108 · 04/03/2025 19:15

We could say the same. We weren't attacked on 9/11 so why did Europeans assist the US in the ME which caused us to be targets?

Why did our soldiers and our tax payers money go towards avenging an attack on the States?

Take that up with your government at the time.

LifeExperience · 04/03/2025 20:36

itsnotabouthepasta · 04/03/2025 19:05

Well withdrawing aid means that USA have violated the Budapest treaty.

ukraine disarmed themselves under the terms of the treaty that America would support them.

Long term, this is disastrous. America are aiming fire at every single ally with zero provocation. Trump couldn’t have made it any more obvious he was a Russian agent. This isn’t something that will hopefully blow over without world war 3 and disappear in 4 years time, it will take generations to overcome the damage that’s being created. Think of the fact that since the Cold War in the 1960s, the world has been suspicious of Russia, that was 60+ years ago. Americas reputation won’t overcome this, this century. And trump has only been in less than two months,

Read the Budapest Treaty, because you don't have any idea what you're talking about. The Budapest Treaty has three signatories--the US, the UK, and Russia. All 3 signatories are required to do the same thing: respect Ukraine's territorial integrity and let the UN know if Ukraine is attacked by nuclear weapons. There are NO OTHER OBLIGATIONS under the agreement. The US has already done much, much, much more for Ukraine than it is required to do under ANY treaty or other instrument of obligation. The billions donated were out of the goodness of Americans' hearts, not because there was any requirement in international law for the US to protect Ukraine.

Now after 3 years of massive bloodshed and billions of dollars we've said we'll only continue if there's some payback. For that we're called everything but decent people. Europe will have to hate us free from now on, because we're done paying and paying and paying for your defense.

Maitri108 · 04/03/2025 20:31

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 20:26

European countries have signed loan agreements with Ukraine. Starmer just went live with one the other day (all over the media) and the UK have a previous one and even Zelensky has said he has agreements with other European countries.

If there is no cost for a human life, why don't the European countries pay for the rest of the war to continue if that's what they are all agreed upon? Why do you need America.? Europe is Europe. Talk the talk and walk the walk if they wish to continue the war.

Why are you mad at Trump America? Let Europe get on with it if everyone hates Trump. Europe can step up and continue the war with Ukraine. Surely that's the way forward if Trump wants peace and the others wish to continue the war till the last man standing and Zelensky/Ukraine doesn't wish to pay America back the money they owe them.

Edited

I said to look up 'ally' in the dictionary and you haven't done so.

We've been allies for a long time and it's conducive for allies to support each other whilst fighting a dictatorship.

Your country has allied with a dictator against other Western democracies. I get it, nothing is more important than money to you.

History and past alliances as well as agreements and international law are meaningless if there's no profit.

Leech natural resources from a former ally that's been fighting for three years, then stop aid. Your King has received lots of cookies from Putin. I'm sure he'll throw some dollars your way, don't worry.

Sadcafe · 04/03/2025 20:29

I doubt it would make any difference even if they did, Trump would just override them, he rules by fear as much as anything, maybe , just maybe, the average American might wake up by their midterm elections and take control of the two houses away from the republicans and at least make a challenge possible

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 20:26

Maitri108 · 04/03/2025 20:05

Im not sure what point you're trying to make. How much is a human life worth? How many of our soldiers should have died in recompense as you invaded yet another country?

You should look up what 'ally' means in the dictionary.

You're wrong and you've been corrected a few times, Europe are not being compensated for aid to Ukraine.

European countries have signed loan agreements with Ukraine. Starmer just went live with one the other day (all over the media) and the UK have a previous one and even Zelensky has said he has agreements with other European countries.

If there is no cost for a human life, why don't the European countries pay for the rest of the war to continue if that's what they are all agreed upon? Why do you need America.? Europe is Europe. Talk the talk and walk the walk if they wish to continue the war.

Why are you mad at Trump America? Let Europe get on with it if everyone hates Trump. Europe can step up and continue the war with Ukraine. Surely that's the way forward if Trump wants peace and the others wish to continue the war till the last man standing and Zelensky/Ukraine doesn't wish to pay America back the money they owe them.

OneLemonDog · 04/03/2025 20:21

FrippEnos · 04/03/2025 20:12

And yet the Democrats have just voted for men in women's sport something that the majority of the country is against.

So why would Americans vote for a party that is out of touch with what the country wants?

It's a bit of a reverse of the abortion issue - with Democrats saying that this should not be a blanket, national ban but should be for States, communities and schools to decide.

itsnotabouthepasta · 04/03/2025 20:16

Odin2018 · 04/03/2025 20:02

Please state what the corruption is? No one seems to be able to show it!

Ok genuinely here’s a question for you.

hand on heart, god as your witness and all that.

do you genuinely believe Mr Trump is being open and honest with the American public? Do you think he has their best interests (and only their interests) at heart? Do you think he is not favouring the Russians in any way shape or form?

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