To think the Republican Party need to wake up and find their spine?

If Ukraine doesn't need the money then don't ask Trump America for anymore if its not about the money Ukraine should have plenty to continue. If everyone just thinks ira about lives then keep going WITHOUT American money. Obviously Ukraine doesn't need it.

European countries together will have a huge army. You can go fight without needing America if European countries are such great allies. Obviously youb don't NEED America if you are angry about the position they want to take. Just ignore America and get on with it. Let's check how well Ukraine and Europ is doing. You might be smashing the Russians, although that would be great, I wouldn't bet on it at all!

Why do people keep on banging om about America, you have Europe.

On the 2008, Scandal, each player in that situation choose to willingly be greedy, with there Cdo's and various other methods of spinning the risk and making profits. Those big banks uk and Usa etc each choose to play the game.

Even if Trump and Vance are dumped before they start WW3 the damage to US reputation is irrevocable. Nobody will trust them ever again so whatever happens they’re on their own.
Oh, sorry I forgot Russia now that Putin is their new bestie. Problem is that psychopaths don’t tend to be very reliable in general.
The republicans are a bunch of self serving cowards and the democrats are incompetent and out of touch with reality.
How can it happen in such an enormous and supposedly educated country that the two candidates were a convicted sex offender who raised a treasonous violent assault or a man who very clearly was in age related mental decline?
Then the democrats leave it far too late to bite the bullet and replace him and when they do it is with a black woman who, given the US racism and misogyny, was never going to win.
Don’t misunderstand me - I would love to see a black woman president but realistically this wasn’t time to push your luck with such an audience.
Maga has uncovered the greed and racism which exists in huge swathes of the population and made both into admirable qualities.
However this ends the dirty belly of the US has tasted power and bearing in mind they are the ones with the most guns I think civil war is inevitable.

Why do you think they don't want to pay it back? It isn't due to be repaid for about 40 years. Hard to tell what you're talking about tbh, you seem very muddled.

Oh and 4 billion whilst clearly a lot is a piss in the wind in terms of 'loans' - the way Trump and Vance talk you would think all the aid was 'repayable loans' - it quite clearly isn't by a very long way -

@Odin2018 it doesn't work like that and you know it doesn't due to global stock markets, many US merchant banks here etc ,pension funds etc - the US and dodgy lending practice caused a financial meltdown at that point - doubt the US are busy paying reparations to the UK for that . It caused a UK bank to have to be bought out by the gvt and several others only survived by the skin of their teeth

So Americas fault if the UK can't survive on its own two feet? I see. Just blame America. It's all their fault., always. So everyone hates America because they are so reliant on America? Who's fault is that? America's?

Well, if Ukraine doesn't want to pay it back to America then they don't want or need any further money or help from America . Obviously they don't need it as the European countries are better allies and Ukraine will pay them back and the Europeans will fund the war from now on for Ukraine.

Well, we know that some of the contributions were made as loans. Around $4bn. It was announced at the time. The US is due to be repaid by 2065 and, in the meantime, the funds have been used to buy US arms.

I can't find any reporting that suggests DOGE have uncovered additional loans but, even if true - if there's no loan agreement, it does not matter how the US Treasury decides to record them.

@BIossomtoes - indeed. And let's thank them too for causing a major crash here in 2008 that lasted years and years thanks to all their reckless mortgage lending in the US - did they offer us all compensation! - America seems to forget that whenever they do something reckless then the rest of the western world catches the cold. I for one am fed up of their sanctimonious hectoring that being paid back for assistance seems a one way street.

Well, if the loan was given specifically to buy those chairs, then the lender does get a double benefit.

That's why companies offer low/no interest loans to customers buying their products. They don't offer the same loans to customers buying their competitors products.

The hit they take in the interest on the loan is more than covered by the profit they make on the sale.

The USA's loans to Ukraine have given a huge shot in the arm to the US arms industry, and therefore benefited the US economy.

@Odin2018 that's fair enough if they have - but it's strange they haven't provided this evidence as of yet and if it wasn't the case and they've been doctoring anything ( and I wouldn't put that past Musk) then the democrats will I'm sure pipe up about it -

That should be, the shop owner gets to sell their chairs, and gets their money back.

But, to the extent the US's contributions were made as loans, they are also repayable by Ukraine. The shop owner gets their chairs and their money (along with accumulated interest) back.

we're done paying and paying and paying for your defense.

We’re pretty pissed off with paying for yours too. Have you paid us anything for the numerous wars the UK has helped you out with in the last 30 years? And God knows you had enough interest on the loan for WWll - it took us 60 years to pay that off.

Elon musk and DOGE have found some of the payments listed as LOANS. I am sure it will be presented to Zelensky.

That's not how loans work.

You know someone. He owns a furniture shop. He lends you some money.
You need a chair so go into his shop and buy 2 chairs.
Can you say to the person, I have bought 2 chairs from your shop so I don't owe you the money anymore?

Talk sense please.

@Odin2018 could you tell
Me when it was documented that the help was 'loans' ' that had to be paid back ??

The loans are being used to purchase equipment, primarily from US companies. So when the USA loans Ukraine money, it is in the knowledge that almost all (if not all) is coming back into the US economy, benefitting the US. And Ukraine will still owe the money as well.

Double benefit to the USA.

Obvious how. Because he won't say what other want him to say.
Zelensky needs to come to the table because that's how agreements are thrashed out. Of course Ukraine is not going to get everything it wishes. That is not how it works, EVER. Swallow your pride, be realistic or keep fighting till Russia takes over mire if your territory and more innocent Ukraine people die. Your choice. Ukraine will not be able to demand everything in its favour, any fool can see this. Too much emotio s cloud people's thinking. Let me say it again.... Ukraine will NOT get everything it wants. Face that now or face it a year down the road with most likely in a worse position.

Ah, @TooBigForMyBoots , you speak of spines and courage as if those were the currency of politics. But let me tell you a little secret power does not yield to principle. It bends to incentive.

The Republican Party did not lose its spine; it simply traded it for something far more valuable control. You call it fear and appeasement, but I call it pragmatism.

They do not oppose Trump because, for all his chaos, he delivers: votes, influence, and the undying loyalty of a base that would rather set fire to the house than let someone else redecorate.

You want them to stop him? Then give them a better deal. Because until the cost of standing with him exceeds the cost of standing against him, you’ll find that their spines are right where they’ve always been firmly in alignment with their best interests.

That is not how loans work.

Again you're repeating Trump. I've already explained to you, quite patiently, about allies and how dangerous Putin is but you're not interested.

It's very obvious how Trump has sided with Putin, apparently Putin is very pleased with his little poodle in the Whitehouse.

Trump accused Zelensky of being a dictator and the aggressor. That's straight from the Kremlin. Your emperor is mindlessly repeating Russian propaganda.

I don't know why these pro-Trump Americans insist on posting on here. If you want to isolationist, do us all a favour and stick to you own parenting forums (just like many of us will be avoiding US services from now on).

We're entitled to judge your country based on its actions and, if you truly don't give a fuck, why the endless attempts at justification?

Most of the money is going to American arms companies. So America is 'getting the money back' because it is predominately going to American workers (and shareholders).

The European arms industry simply isn't big enough to.provide what Ukraine needs, so European money is also going to America.