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Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference

359 replies

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Share

In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

OP posts:
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Superhansrantowindsor · 02/03/2025 07:16

There are a lot of assumptions and opinions in the op declared as fact.

The US President had called him a dictator. They have made it clear they are not going to be tough on Putin. He was ambushed.

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 06:57

This is another take on how Zelensky was treated, from a Ukrainian lawyer

Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference
Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference
Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference
Genevieva · 02/03/2025 06:23

I think this much shorter video is better:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmMl8ISPcY

These sorts of discussions should happen behind closed doors, with the public engagement being all smiles after the tricky bits are ironed out. It’s been clear for a while that there is some tension over the terms of the deal the USA has offered, so Zelensky should not have travelled to the Oval Office signing and engaged in a public press conference during which he was scheduled to sign a deal until he was happy with those terms.

Personally, I think it will likely all get sorted out in the coming weeks. In reality, the US also has rare earth metals. More than Ukraine actually. This is more about Trump’s America first policy and wanting to make sure American taxpayers don’t shoulder the burden of funding foreign governments without recompense. The EU’s support has been structured as a loan, not a gift. The UK’s support has been more like America’s - billions of money we don’t have, so have to borrow and pay interest on.

Yesterday Starmer announced another £2.26 billion, structured as a loan that will be repaid from frozen Russian assets. This essentially means a gift to Ukraine and he hopes he might get some of it back from Russians whose British bank accounts were frozen or properties abandoned, but they could face legal challenges over doing that and they have no contractual backstop for repayment of the loan. I think it’s reasonable to assume the U.K. taxpayers will shoulder the burden for most of this.

C0tt0nCandy · 02/03/2025 06:22

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Share

In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

No the entire world saw it for what it was- nasty bullying by ignorant rich men. It is not on Zelensky in anyway shape or form .

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 06:14

ladsladzladse · 02/03/2025 06:07

No, it's not. Russia is surrounded by NATO countries, to the northwest and down around the south: Norway (a founding member of NATO, by the way, joined in 1949) and now Turkey, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland.

This narrative that the threat of Ukraine joining NATO provoked the USSR Russia is false and has always been false. But even if it were true - how can one country prevent another from applying to join an open international alliance? How is that democratic or fair?

If Russia wanted to keep Ukraine in its sphere of influence, it could have offered Ukraine more, right? More than what Ukraine already gave it by synchronising laws and policies across the CIS and by easing up - and Zelensky did this personally, no other candidate in the last elections did - on clampdowns on Russification and Sovieticisation in Ukraine. But maybe not. Maybe nothing Zelenskyy or anyone did could stop the tide because maybe Ukraine - as its history so clearly tells us - wanted to be part of "Europe" and did not want some other outside country to say it could not do what its citizens agreed to do.

So, you are basically saying that Russia failed and needs to bring in a strong arm outside actor (Vance - yeah, I giggled, but ironically) to rein in Ukraine? I saw something from Victor Orbán on Twitter in response to the weirdo shite Vance pulled with Zelensky. Orbán said that leaders who make peace are strong and leaders who make war are weak.

Orbán's right - Putin is the weakest link. But Trump is right behind him if he doesn't decisively shut down Vance.

It’s how Russia views this situation, regardless of how “ some of the west” perceive this.

2014 crimea was annexed so this wasn’t the start 3 years ago but that’s not how Russia will see this

ladsladzladse · 02/03/2025 06:07

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 05:36

Russia started this shit and they can end it too

umkraine wanted into NATO, which was a big factor in this war starting, that’s not something that can be ignored. There had been promises that it wouldn’t happen - so why did Ukraine go down that route?

yes Russia invaded Ukraine, but they see this was due to the nato business and that Ukraine started the war

No, it's not. Russia is surrounded by NATO countries, to the northwest and down around the south: Norway (a founding member of NATO, by the way, joined in 1949) and now Turkey, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland.

This narrative that the threat of Ukraine joining NATO provoked the USSR Russia is false and has always been false. But even if it were true - how can one country prevent another from applying to join an open international alliance? How is that democratic or fair?

If Russia wanted to keep Ukraine in its sphere of influence, it could have offered Ukraine more, right? More than what Ukraine already gave it by synchronising laws and policies across the CIS and by easing up - and Zelensky did this personally, no other candidate in the last elections did - on clampdowns on Russification and Sovieticisation in Ukraine. But maybe not. Maybe nothing Zelenskyy or anyone did could stop the tide because maybe Ukraine - as its history so clearly tells us - wanted to be part of "Europe" and did not want some other outside country to say it could not do what its citizens agreed to do.

So, you are basically saying that Russia failed and needs to bring in a strong arm outside actor (Vance - yeah, I giggled, but ironically) to rein in Ukraine? I saw something from Victor Orbán on Twitter in response to the weirdo shite Vance pulled with Zelensky. Orbán said that leaders who make peace are strong and leaders who make war are weak.

Orbán's right - Putin is the weakest link. But Trump is right behind him if he doesn't decisively shut down Vance.

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 06:07

Maybe this year China will move on Taiwan because why not, no one's going to stop them.

and nobody would be stopping Putin take Alaska, which is what Russia wants and how Oytin wants the world to view USA

NuNameNuMe · 02/03/2025 06:03

so why did Ukraine go down that route?

I sadly think NATO membership is a moot point these days. It's pretty clear the US is not going to defend it's allies any longer. In any case what value is Ukraine to Russia when he's captured the US government? Maybe this year China will move on Taiwan because why not, no one's going to stop them.

TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged · 02/03/2025 05:41

Kisin is treating this like it was real time international diplomacy happening infront of the cameras, and not a performance of public humiliation of Zelensky to soften up Putin.
To me, if this is truly what happened, that the three leaders were carrying out their negotiations on camera like it's the next season of The Apprentice - this is far more shocking than how much of a bully Trump was or how inadequate Zelensky's forelock tugging was.

It wouldn't matter if Trump had displayed the manners of a prince and the wisdom of Solomon.
Oval Office reality TV?
Goodness.

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 05:36

Russia started this shit and they can end it too

umkraine wanted into NATO, which was a big factor in this war starting, that’s not something that can be ignored. There had been promises that it wouldn’t happen - so why did Ukraine go down that route?

yes Russia invaded Ukraine, but they see this was due to the nato business and that Ukraine started the war

NuNameNuMe · 02/03/2025 05:31

Alternatively, this war could be ended by Putin going back to the border as it was in Jan 2022. Once again, shills for the Russian government like the OP, are telling us not to believe the evidence of our own eyes. Russia started this shit and they can end it too.

SpidersAreShitheads · 02/03/2025 05:26

Under the Budapest Memorandum, the US is specifically required to protect Ukraine - something that Trump appears to be ignoring.

I understand we all occupy different spaces on the political spectrum, but I cannot fathom for a second how anyone thinks the behaviour from Trump/Vance was remotely acceptable.

Zelensky is in a horrendously difficult situation but he can’t sign over the rights to his country’s rare minerals without cast iron guarantees from the US. That wouldn’t be in the best interests of Ukraine.

We all know that you get more from Trump when you stroke his enormous toddler ego, but Zelensky refusing to sign an unfair agreement would have enraged Trump and there’s clearly no coming back from that. Zelensky couldn’t have won unless he handed Trump the signed agreement and grovelled to be thankful for the chance to fuck his country over. Constantine Kristin’s take is incredibly naive and unfair to Zelensky.

But as I say, it’s all irrelevant anyway as the US is supposed to be protecting Ukraine under the terms of the 1994 agreement.

None of us want this war but letting Putin invade another country and keep what he’s taken isn’t a fair outcome. Trump backing up his pal Putin isn’t helping reach a reasonable conclusion.

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 05:19

Zelensky would have been far better to have, when asked by a gentleman stood behind the sofa - why aren’t you wearing a suit? To have replied with next question

instead he went on the defensive

to interrupt being asked a question, then trying to answer & being spoken over, as talking over Trump & jd - how was he or when was he supposed to answer?

USA, Russia & UK signed a trilateral agreement that Ukraine would disarm the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in 1994 in return for economic & protection. This is why the trust has disappeared.

the fact a Russian journalist was invited into the Oval Office as this time, suspect - that doesn’t normally happen. Who’s benefit was this contrived situation?

greenveneer · 02/03/2025 05:02

Would Trump have even honoured the agreement? Was it worth signing? I'm not sure anything of value was lost at all.

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 04:43

Purplelodestone · 02/03/2025 02:53

100% this ^

Ukraine has had messages of support from (in no particular order) France, Sweden, Germany, Ireland, Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Austria, Luxembourg, Slovenia, Canada, Croatia, Romania, Czech Republic, Portugal and of course UK with "never here Keir" .

So are these countries going to 'pony up' and put some money where their mouths are?

It reminds me of Tony Blair jetting off all over the place trying to get support for the "War on Terror", and we all know how that turned out. 🙄

Ahm they already have.
Some even more than the UK ( per GDP of course)

And nobody wanted to support Blair during Iraq because everybody knew it was clearly a hoax.

2021x · 02/03/2025 04:39

I agree with his interpretation of Trumps view, however I disagree that the current US administration is the best delegation to broker this deal, which is what I believe Zelensky was reacting to.

Trump is a "business man" which means he only sees the bottom line. He has no experience in politics. Here in NZ we also currently have a government solely focused on trade deals to fill the deficit after COVID, though I would argue Luxom is quite a bit more competent.

What the US did was vote for a entertainment which is what they got in that press conference. All the shennanigans about wearing a suit is just to distract people from the real story.

And to the final point the BBC has editorial standards, and is held accountable to those standards as it is funded by the British public. It cannot publish anything that cannot be fact checked, which is why it is always a red flag when someone has been turned down by them as a journalist. Kristin has published his opinion and nothing more, there is nothing honest about this because it is an opinion based on his feeling and possibly experience. He can say what he likes, and does this to get clicks. We need the BBC to ensure we have high qualtiy reporting on situations like this.

sashh · 02/03/2025 04:38

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:21

I agree with everything in your OP.

What Trump and Vance said was true - but their delivery was extremely unfortunate and made Zelenskyy, who stayed calm, look like a hero.

When Trump said Z was going to start WW3 he was right.

I think the hysteria is a bit like Brexit mark II, those who shout loudest etc - not necessarily what the majority are thinking, but most can't be arsed getting into it and being called "evil bigots" "rape apologists" "thick" etc.

I wonder how many of those spouting unfailing (and never ending) support for Ukraine (70% of who's population want the war to end NOW) will be happy to wave their sons and grandsons off to war?

It's all well and good to want to appear virtuous and be on the "good guys" side - but the reality is giving Ukraine more money and support is just dragging this out even longer and putting our country in a very dangerous position - especially now the US are out.

I'm surprised it isn't 100% that want the war to end.

Wanting the war to end isn't the same as wanting to go back to being a soviet republic though.

Trump has held negotiations with Putin, they are friends it seems, peace negotiations should include all interested parties, not just the aggressor.

And Trump has form. Look at the deal he did with the Taliban? A deal between a US president and a terrorist organisation.

Look how that turned out for the ordinary Afghans.

Floppyflippers · 02/03/2025 04:22

How very dare you come on here trying to discuss things in depth, from different angles and viewpoints.

Trump is an orange twatbag.
Hysterical rant...personal attack...hysterical rant...lie...exaggerate...hysterical rant. There you go, that's the full argument and the only one allowed.

Now, off you pop to listen to the influencers, media personalities trying to whip viewers up into a frenzy of fear, uneducated illiterates on social media spreading rumours after seeing half a soundbite and screaming shouting Tiktokkers calling for the assassination of Trump/Musk/Billionaires/CEOs/anyone who they see as the enemy for not thinking how they are told.

Don't read, listen or watch anything you're not not supposed to, okay. Don't you dare come up with your own opinion and certainly don't try to express it. Now, run along because only one opinion counts. Truth is what I tell you it is. There's a good little girl/boy/them/it.

JHound · 02/03/2025 04:06

dontcryformeargentina · 02/03/2025 03:30

Doesn’t make him Russian. It’s a lazy excuse to label everyone Russian whose opinion you disagree with.

Eh?

  1. What does that have to do with my post?
  2. Generally it’s not lazy to call people born in Russia, “Russian”
  3. What does that have to do with my post?

You quote the wrong person?

ladsladzladse · 02/03/2025 04:05

You didn't turn on voting but yes, YABU.

Russia invaded Ukraine and has savaged civilians in all of the areas they have been able to occupy. Ukraine's not in NATO but the Budapest Memorandum is a binding pledge for the USA (and other countries including the UK) to support Ukraine in the event of outside aggression in response for its giving up its Soviet-legacy nukes. That outside aggression has been happening since 2016, but it took 2022's full-on armed invasion from Russia for the world to do anything about it.

The UK and France - much smaller countries with much smaller military budgets - are able to meet their oblicgations. As are many many countries who aren't even formally obliged to help - for example Poland, who rightly sounded the alarm that outside aggression was happening back in 2016 and, after trying and failing to rally the level of EU institutional support it wanted, supported Ukraine on its own. WHY exactly can't the USA meet its obligations? Too wee, too poor, too stupid, too weak? Or too corrupt?

This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. No it didn't. Let's drop the tired old biased "asking for it" nonsense and hold Vance himself accountable. Yeah, Ukraine has a complex and not entirely pristine history, but Vance is the VP of (arguably) the most powerful country in the world! He really doesn't have any advisors who can see the situation for what it is? Some dude on a video's opinion doesn't change facts.

As for uninformed hysteria - surprise, surprise - rape apologist is also a misogynist.

In sum: read the world. Zelensky blew nothing - including Trump/Vance, which is probably the real "problem" here.

Ottersmith · 02/03/2025 03:40

Uh ok pal 🤔

dontcryformeargentina · 02/03/2025 03:30

JHound · 02/03/2025 02:09

He has claimed due to him having a paternal grandfather who is Jewish. His parents are Orthodox Christian.

Doesn’t make him Russian. It’s a lazy excuse to label everyone Russian whose opinion you disagree with.

JHound · 02/03/2025 03:19

Purplelodestone · 02/03/2025 02:53

100% this ^

Ukraine has had messages of support from (in no particular order) France, Sweden, Germany, Ireland, Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Austria, Luxembourg, Slovenia, Canada, Croatia, Romania, Czech Republic, Portugal and of course UK with "never here Keir" .

So are these countries going to 'pony up' and put some money where their mouths are?

It reminds me of Tony Blair jetting off all over the place trying to get support for the "War on Terror", and we all know how that turned out. 🙄

They have been providing financial support to Ukraine.

Purplelodestone · 02/03/2025 02:53

hairbearbunches · 01/03/2025 22:05

Well, I’d rather other countries in Europe were taking the lead on supporting Ukraine and Starmer was leaving his cape in the wardrobe.

we’ve got a fucking great target on our soil in Faslane. It’s target 1 in any nuclear conflict.

The UK does not need to be poking the bear, we should be quietly supporting other countries in Europe, not taking centre stage. We never learn.

100% this ^

Ukraine has had messages of support from (in no particular order) France, Sweden, Germany, Ireland, Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Austria, Luxembourg, Slovenia, Canada, Croatia, Romania, Czech Republic, Portugal and of course UK with "never here Keir" .

So are these countries going to 'pony up' and put some money where their mouths are?

It reminds me of Tony Blair jetting off all over the place trying to get support for the "War on Terror", and we all know how that turned out. 🙄

Purplelodestone · 02/03/2025 02:41

@Dollydaydream100 "It's all well and good to want to appear virtuous and be on the "good guys" side - but the reality is giving Ukraine more money and support is just dragging this out even longer and putting our country in a very dangerous position - especially now the US are out."

This ^

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