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Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference

359 replies

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
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In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

OP posts:
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TaggieO · 02/03/2025 08:51

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:21

I agree with everything in your OP.

What Trump and Vance said was true - but their delivery was extremely unfortunate and made Zelenskyy, who stayed calm, look like a hero.

When Trump said Z was going to start WW3 he was right.

I think the hysteria is a bit like Brexit mark II, those who shout loudest etc - not necessarily what the majority are thinking, but most can't be arsed getting into it and being called "evil bigots" "rape apologists" "thick" etc.

I wonder how many of those spouting unfailing (and never ending) support for Ukraine (70% of who's population want the war to end NOW) will be happy to wave their sons and grandsons off to war?

It's all well and good to want to appear virtuous and be on the "good guys" side - but the reality is giving Ukraine more money and support is just dragging this out even longer and putting our country in a very dangerous position - especially now the US are out.

Also, nice casual sexism there. Any reason women can’t go to war….?

And it’s not about waving our sons and daughters off to fight for Ukraine. Putin isn’t going to be stopping with “just a bit of Ukraine”. It’ll be a bit more. And then all of it. Then comes Poland and Slovakia, Australia and Germany. France. And then it’s our turn. So do we get behind the very real need to stop Putin now, or wait til he’s invading the South Coast with his new empire that’s 3 times the size of what he has now and only then worry that we should have been more vocal in stopping him earlier…?

Teencentral · 02/03/2025 08:50

There's a table in the Times today showing how much aid various countries have paid to Ukraine, the US has paid $114 billion next is Germany with $29 billion then the UK with $14 billion, I do think it's an absolutely valid question from the US as to why it is them that are paying so much.

TaggieO · 02/03/2025 08:47

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:21

I agree with everything in your OP.

What Trump and Vance said was true - but their delivery was extremely unfortunate and made Zelenskyy, who stayed calm, look like a hero.

When Trump said Z was going to start WW3 he was right.

I think the hysteria is a bit like Brexit mark II, those who shout loudest etc - not necessarily what the majority are thinking, but most can't be arsed getting into it and being called "evil bigots" "rape apologists" "thick" etc.

I wonder how many of those spouting unfailing (and never ending) support for Ukraine (70% of who's population want the war to end NOW) will be happy to wave their sons and grandsons off to war?

It's all well and good to want to appear virtuous and be on the "good guys" side - but the reality is giving Ukraine more money and support is just dragging this out even longer and putting our country in a very dangerous position - especially now the US are out.

He absolutely isn’t though. PUTIN is going to start WW3. Remember him? The dictator who invaded Zelenskyy’s country? How is Russia invading Zelenskyy’s fault?

It’s akin to saying a woman deserved to be raped because she wore a short skirt.

Porcuporpoise · 02/03/2025 08:42

@Purplelodestone with no security guarantees how would any deal stop more Ukrainians being killed? Trading resources for security is one thing, but just giving them away?

crossstitchingnana · 02/03/2025 08:39

Cleardays · 02/03/2025 07:36

This is a good analysis from Konstan.

I thought that clip was appalling, and T&V were bullies.

But every fool and his dog knows that Trump loves praise and his ego being massaged, and Zelensky needed to play that game.

Also, Trump prises loyalty above all else and rewards it. When he saw ‘his’ man being criticized, he was of course going to come firmly down on Vance’s side by attacking Zelensky.

The comment about Putin coming for USA next, Trump would have hated. He loves power and strength and any intimation that America could be weak or vulnerable would have landed like a sack of shit.

My thoughts exactly.

Purplelodestone · 02/03/2025 08:38

@Porcuporpoise "I don't think just fawning over the orange fool whilst signing away your mineral rights without receiving any security guarantees in return would have been a good outcome for Ukraine."

Surely it would have been better than having any more Ukranians killed - 400,000 to date ?

Ukraine wanted to be a sovereign country and be independent from Russia. Now they need to pull on their 'big boy pants' and do that without expecting other countries to bail them out.

They have plenty of assets locked away - huge deposits of critical elements and minerals, including lithium and titanium, as well as sizeable coal, gas, oil and uranium deposits - supplies worth billions of dollars.
They should have started liquidating these assets in 1991

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 08:35

mumda · 02/03/2025 07:35

Interesting.

I think the BBC have just said that 2.5bn being given to Ukraine is secured on frozen Russian assets.

How's that work?

The assets are frozen, so seized and they use the profits to fund Ukraine. But, if they follow the law, they cannot take the assets themselves.
So, those are Zelensky's cards in the negotiations. If the countries the assets are in will back him up and should they decide to actually take the asset itself as payment to rebuild Ukraine. Or keep the assets frozen until it is paid. Or whatever.
All these will be part of the negotiations. The land, the rights to join Nato, EU, sanctions, presence of Nato troops as peacekeepers, rebuilding of areas affected, trade or no trade deals ( mind you, economic and trade sanctions are a big heavy tool here), return of POW and children ( that Russia has stolen from Ukraine!), re-arming of Ukraine, and so on and on...

AlisonDonut · 02/03/2025 08:34

Business people always start high - I don't think Zelenski is used to a negotiation rather than fawning backslapping 'here have all the money'.

And I don't see any other alternatives on his table. Perhaps he could suggest some? Maybe in front of a press conference?

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 08:27

It is true that Zelensky did not need to ask anything directly from Vance, particularly challenging him on the effectiveness of diplomacy, which was what they all were there for. But Vance could have said that Trump has the stance to bring this diplomatic negotiations to reality, long standing reality. The others failed, but Trump will succeed.
That would have stopped it there. At least Zelensky carried on the same lines.
But Vance did behave very lowly by insulting Zelensky (Ukraine really) directly. Vance needs to contain himself. Zelensky too, he needs to behave and talk in the way needed to reach that table for peace negotiations. At that point, they should all have acted like good friends with hopes to sort the issue.
At least, the statement is he can come back, when he is ready for peace. We shall see.
Europe, yes we need to support Ukraine on this and arm ourselves and get a trained and effective army, because Putin is a clear danger to all of us and US is very likely to side with them or simply walk out of the Nato agreement. So we will have to go solo and we need to face that, now.
But we should gently (or not so gently) lead Zelensky to that table, to find out which terms are on it. Not to sell Ukraine or affect its sovereignity, but to get a permanent ceasefire. It is overdue and this war needs to end. I do get his fears, this happened before and Putin just violated the agreements, but we need to give it a try for the sake of the Ukranians.

Porcuporpoise · 02/03/2025 08:24

Cleardays · 02/03/2025 07:36

This is a good analysis from Konstan.

I thought that clip was appalling, and T&V were bullies.

But every fool and his dog knows that Trump loves praise and his ego being massaged, and Zelensky needed to play that game.

Also, Trump prises loyalty above all else and rewards it. When he saw ‘his’ man being criticized, he was of course going to come firmly down on Vance’s side by attacking Zelensky.

The comment about Putin coming for USA next, Trump would have hated. He loves power and strength and any intimation that America could be weak or vulnerable would have landed like a sack of shit.

I don't think just fawning over the orange fool whilst signing away your mineral rights without receiving any security guarantees in return would have been a good outcome for Ukraine.

Purplelodestone · 02/03/2025 08:19

mumda · 02/03/2025 07:35

Interesting.

I think the BBC have just said that 2.5bn being given to Ukraine is secured on frozen Russian assets.

How's that work?

It works just fine until Russia starts freezing our assets.

Serpentstooth · 02/03/2025 08:19

It's not a deal. Its extortion by bullies. No security guarantee, no deal. Nobody sane would accept it.

Purplelodestone · 02/03/2025 08:17

JHound · 02/03/2025 03:19

They have been providing financial support to Ukraine.

Really ?

How much ?

lavenderlou · 02/03/2025 08:03

Trump and Vance were a masterclass in how not to do diplomacy. If they were at all interested in a deal this would have been done behind closed doors. Instead they turned the cameras on, spouted nonsense about "feeling good" and allowed the VP whi would usually sit on the sidelines nodding and smiling to shout and insult an elected Head of State. There are many legitimate arguments about why a deal needs to be made but not when they are presented in such a farcical setting.

ForeverScout · 02/03/2025 08:03

Viviennemary · 01/03/2025 22:26

America was quick enough to ask for help after 9/11 and got it. I was disgusted by their attitude yesterday.

100% agreed. I do wonder if America is attacked again if any other country would go to their aid and defence. I would suspect many of us would now hesitate.

I mean, honestly. How many thousands of his people has Zelensky witnessed being slaughtered? And they're talking suits and respect, as if Ukraine is not being obliterated as they speak, and as if Trump and co haven't already pissed all over the Oval Office and the constitution all by themselves. It's contemptible behaviour.

In my view Trump lost - he wanted a stranglehold on Ukraine's resources well in excess of anything the US has contributed, with no assurances to Ukraine of any kind of protection. He didn't walk away with what he wanted. He didn't "make the deal". He's nothing more than a mercenary, racketeering using Russia's guns. The current US govt does not deserve any kind of respect, and I suspect they are apoplectic that not everyone falls at their feet in obsequious humiliation - especially those in desperate situations they thought would roll over easily and say please and thanks for shitting on me.

JennyForeigner · 02/03/2025 07:59

Yeah and I bet you celebrated as the T-54s rolled into Czechoslovakia.

Fuck off tanky.

RedHelenB · 02/03/2025 07:57

A deal is scuppered because you don't wear a suit and aren't thankful or respectful enough my arse.

PebbleJus · 02/03/2025 07:54

TemperTost
I do think KK's take on this is in many ways realistic though. The fact is that Z has few options, and none of them are great. No one, including the US, wants a hot war with Russia. There is a real chance that could even pull in China, and it's not at all clear that the US or even a united NATO would prevail, and it's difficult to see how that would help the Ukrainians. This is what Trump was getting at about WWIII which I think some don't appreciate. Even those who might think the sacrifice of war would be worth it think again when the possibility of really losing is part of the picture.

You and at least one other poster have said you think Trump has a point with his WW3 comment. I don’t know about your family, but in mine when we disagree, we try to have measured discussions. We may end up arguing but what we don’t do is a create a big scene and put on a show for the neighbours. That kind of interaction takes place behind closed doors.

I’m far from an experienced negotiator and I don’t know how to play poker but it seems to me really elementary to not show your opponent that you’re scared even if you’re quivering inside, or at least you don’t show them how scared you are. We all know that bullies go after those perceived to be the weakest first. Showing your true position when it is weak means you get hit harder, quicker. So Zelenskyy’s position is not strong. America, as Ukraine’s supposed ally shouldn’t be saying that publicly.

Instead, like little birds and other little critters, you puff out your chest and try to make yourself seem bigger than you are until the time comes when you have to accept defeat. It helps if your so-called friends don’t bring you down publicly too.

This was not a discussion to have in front of the world’s media.

Cleardays · 02/03/2025 07:48

Sharty · 01/03/2025 21:49

What people don’t understand is that in the world of politics, it’s not important whether you’re right. And while British people like our politicians to be polite, this isn’t universal across other countries. A lot of Americans prefer straight talking even if it veers towards rudeness. I mean it’s literally why they voted for Trump. If you’re in Zelenskyy’s position you have to be clever, you don’t have the luxury of being right.

I agree with this.

Yes T&V openly displayed what vile bullies they are who loved the feeling of power they had over Zelensky, but we all knew this was their character before that interview.

That was the character Ukraine knew they had to deal with to get what they needed.

Life isn’t fair or just but sometimes you have to deal with the people who are unfair and unjust to get what you want.

Cleardays · 02/03/2025 07:42

Maitri108 · 01/03/2025 21:52

Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached.

Who is this prick? It says on his wiki page that he's a comedian.

He doesn't understand that Putin is a ruthless dictator who has already signed several agreements with Ukraine, promising he'll stop invading and he keeps doing it.

This comedian thinks it's strange that Zelensky doesn't trust Putin and wants security.

He's mansplaining Zelensky's position and he hasn't made me laugh once.

He isn’t at all saying it’s strange Z wants security guarantees regarding Putin! How on earth did you manage to come to that interpretation!

Cleardays · 02/03/2025 07:36

This is a good analysis from Konstan.

I thought that clip was appalling, and T&V were bullies.

But every fool and his dog knows that Trump loves praise and his ego being massaged, and Zelensky needed to play that game.

Also, Trump prises loyalty above all else and rewards it. When he saw ‘his’ man being criticized, he was of course going to come firmly down on Vance’s side by attacking Zelensky.

The comment about Putin coming for USA next, Trump would have hated. He loves power and strength and any intimation that America could be weak or vulnerable would have landed like a sack of shit.

mumda · 02/03/2025 07:35

Interesting.

I think the BBC have just said that 2.5bn being given to Ukraine is secured on frozen Russian assets.

How's that work?

BigSilly · 02/03/2025 07:29

Thank you for that, Captain Obvious.
Most People realise the war is unwinnable by Ukraine.
They are are in the main part outraged by the boorish, unprofessional disrespectful tone and humiliation of another world leader ( and by extension, its people) rather than the content of what was being said. That and the assertation that Valensky had not expressed enough gratitude to USA when he has done so publicly on over 30 occasions

Whatwhat123 · 02/03/2025 07:22

Konstantin Kisin has a large alt right following in America and is friends with Joe Rogan, so I’m guessing he has to tiptoe around any criticism of Trump.

Ginmonkeyagain · 02/03/2025 07:21

Ahh Konstantin "Rishi Sunak can't be English because he is a brown Hindu "Kisin.

Yeah. No.

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