To think Britain should have nothing to do with this war

@TwinklyPearlPoster
Does he? I heard it from politicians from my country. And it is true. First of all we would rather have a long border with Ukraine than Russia, feels safer that way.
Secondly, it is very, very naive to think that Putin will stop if we give him Ukraine.
Why do you think Finland panic joined NATO?

They exist and are popular because of russian backing. They are not independent.

Are you implying all European countries have borrowed to build their defence? You are entitled to think that Britain should have nothing to do with this. But your rationals are quite weak.

No? Why is the US $36 trillion in debt then?

Reform is currently topping the UK polls. They will gain popularity with or without Russia’s (apparent) backing.

Oh - as for the Russian apologists on this thread and others, We remember you killed people on British soil with your poisons and nerve agents. We don't trust you and your government is clearly afraid of its own people - and it's why you clamp down on free speech and rig elections. The USA needs to be fearful of their President - he is u stable, unpredictable and ill educated. He is a thumping ignorant bully.

The US has the world's mightiest military force without universal healthcare. They spend most of their money on defence. Some may think it's more important that you have a secure country first, before you think of tax payer funded programs. Europe has been able to have a robust healthcare and social safety net precisely because they've relied on the US's military instead of focusing on their own. Now it's time for Europe to step up.

Who's the liar?
And why wouldn't Ukraine help the UK?
Do you have any sources for this?
There have been clear lies on this thread, not opinions. Zelensky hasn't started the war and is not a dictator that is just as factually untrue as the sky being green.
So why would somebody peddle this unless they are a Russian bot?
What is your answer to this?

It's not a good message to relay to dictators that we won't stand alongside each other. The Defence Strategy Council has already stated that the US would be unlikely to win a future war against China/Russia.

Really OP - are you serious? You are fretting your cost of living might go up while Ukrainians are fighting and dying trying to protect their right to live free of Russian terror? You do remember North Korea are helping the Russians - a more tyrannical state is hard to imagine. If that is too recent - you have heard of Hitler invading Czechoslovakia and then Poland and then what happened next?

Of course we have to support Ukraine - they are the frontline of Europe against the totalitarian regime of Russia. We either stand for freedom and democracy or we do not.

The USA right now is standing with Russia - President Trump-Musk cannot be trusted. They have no moral principles. For them only money is important. The treatment of Zelenskyy was appalling. The fact that TASS (Russias news agency) was in the White House while Reuters was banned tells you so much about what way the USA is heading.

Yes - we need to support Ukraine. We may suffer a bit of discomfort on the home front or may even lose some lives defending the democratic right of a friendly country - but the reality is that is what happens if a just peace cannot be found by peaceful negotiation. We can never bow down to bullies. Can you imagine if Hitler and the Nazis had been allowed to carry on without the intervention of other countries - shudder at the thought.

You’re posting crap on a public forum - what’s that if not freedom of speech?

It's about preserving peace in Europe

this

It’s cheaper to fight a war by proxy than spending your own blood (or those of your sons) on the battlefield. Be under no illusion that winter is coming.

like a promise from a liar

this from someone who said zelensky started the war…oh my days

You are not understanding what's at stake here.
Think about ww2.
Britain did not get involved when Hitler invaded Austria or Czechoslovakia. Because it was politically unpopular to go to war, politicians wanted to stay out of it, felt it wasn't our business.
We did get involved when they invaded Poland. Thank goodness we didn't wait longer, although it's a shame we didn't respond much more quickly as it might have stopped the whole thing. Following your argument we would have stayed out of it until Hitler controlled the whole of the European mainland and actually attacked Britain by which time it would have been too late to stop him. As it is we only won with Russia and the US - we would have been nowhere without allies. This is why we need to stand together with allied countries. It's stupid to think we have any power on our own.

It's really not about do-gooding to the Ukrainians. It's about preserving peace in Europe.

So much egg there’s no pudding at all.

It’s precisely because Trump is withdrawing financial aid that Europe has to offer more.

If you cant understand the context and relevance, I am not here to educate you.

Very clear what I wrote - its not cryptic. Thanks.

And as for Ukraine ever helping the UK - LMAO - like a promise from a liar!

Sorry I meant to say NATO is not as reliable with the US in it. I would actually rely on other NATO members because the have proven to be trustworthy.
The US not so much.
I am also scared about the enemies from within, the Russian cyber misinformation campaign is one of the strongest in world. Even the US has given up on it and NATO doesn't even care. Same with the underwater cable cutting. You don't have to put military boots on the ground if the public votes for a party with Russian ties.

I've not read the thread, I'm not a bot, Alfred burnt cakes in fact!!

I seem to have an outlier view on here, I don't support putin at all, I have strong feelings of hate for the man.
I'm not a trump fan either.
However I think the team around trump have come up with a plan to try and out fox putin and zelensky isn't playing ball because he wants putin punished.

Unfortunately to punish putin and I'd dearly like him punished, would kick off all sorts of nasty stuff. Eg what if putin uses a small tactical nuke what do we do then?

Use one back?

What if he used gasses like Syria? Sanction him more?
He has nuclear weapons.

Trump said he has to maintain cordial relation with putin to try and find a way through.
There will be some cross party support here and people working in back office roles feeding in information they have tried to come up with a way to stop this.

And do some tactical moves to get more of a USA steak into Ukraine. Biden was predictable and straight. Trump is emotionally unpredictable and I think that worries putin.

We are all up against the land of chess players and m
Kgb agents planning every move. Trump is a wild card in charge of the button.

I think that works in our favour collectively.
Let's use it!
Box putin in.
People get confused over how they want putin punished.
He's not going to be, like this with USA taking the entire world to the brink with nukes forcing alliance with our enemies.

Loosing all o
Possibility of Ukraine will be punishment. I also don't believe for one second that if trump went for us, the USA wouldn't assist and they have said they would.Quite understandibly going back to Obama they just want Europe to tool up and step up.
They are playing to a bigger audience here.

@juldan

independent Ukraine is crucial to preserving the independence of other European countries.

why though ?

This is something Zelensky says when he come around asking for support.

I don’t blame him, but I don’t see how it could be remotely true.

Zelensky offered to stand down last week. That’s not usual behaviour for a dictator. Also, how did he start the war?