Secretly Recorded by GP

That’s an interesting link. I think that there is a case to be made that even if the practice mentions this in an online privacy document, this is not adequate and proportional when an OUTGOING call of clinical
sensitivity is considered and is not inline with GMC guidelines. The GP should tell the person on a call and check they are happy to proceed. Sounds like practices would be ok with an automated recording however it’s a technical challenge to have this on an outgoing call and an ‘inconvenience’ for the medic to remember to mention.

@K10f1 I know there are some mentions of GP wrong doing however I think the majority of references to ‘GP’ mean the ‘GP practice’ not the actual medic and know it isn’t in the medic’s gift to turn record on or off.

You're right. Very few people realise that GPs are private businesses and not part of the NHS.

Yep, hence why it's even weirder that people with the weird attitudes to the NHS also have them about GPs! 😆

Yes, you are correct, I do know that. I didn’t mention that in my post as they are still part of the NHS system. Knowing that they are in effect privately owned, may go some way to stopping this deferential attitude I see, so you are right to mention it.

soory edited to add that I see @EmmaMaria originally mentioned this.

I'm a GP. All out calls have been recorded now for the best part of 10 years. I don't decide who I record, all calls are recorded, I can't do anything to stop the recording or start it. It's just something the phones do. I don't listen back to the recordings unless required for medicolegal reasons, although I know calls are audited on a management level and that cases are checked at random to ensure patients are receiving good clinical care. There is an automated message when people telephone in informing them that calls are recorded but I don't know if everywhere does that.

You're right. Very few people realise that GPs are private businesses and not part of the NHS.

One of those weird attitudes is that GP's are part of the NHS. They are not. They deliver services for the NHS but they are private businesses.

there are weird attitudes to the NHS in this country and evidenced on this thread. Medics don’t have a free pass to do what they want on the basis that you should be grateful to be given any medical care. This attitude is really damaging.

Luckily I only see this on MNs but yes it's so weird. I do think some posters just post to be contrary rather than actually believing it though.

Sorry idk how I posted early. Should say when I call my GP it warns me about recording for training/monitoring but when they call me eg for consultations it does not. Legally, they should be telling you at the start of consultations!

https://mdujournal.themdu.com/issue-archive/autumn-2019/all-calls-are-monitored

I work in mental healthcare and did not know GPS record all calls. When I call my GP, it

Every GP practice I have worked for has recorded all phone calls in case the patient complains, in order to have the recording instead of the patients word against the doctor about what was said.
Why has it being recorded upset you, if it has remained confidential?

The gp isn't sitting there deciding which calls to record or not record! They don't press a button on their phone to make it recorded. It's all done automatically through the computer. The GP probably never even actually thought about the fact that the call was being recorded it probably didn't even cross their mind.
Every firm I've worked for across virtually the last 20 years has recorded all calls. There is usually an automated message on inbound calls informing the caller but when making outbound calls I never have to inform them.

The only time calls are ever listened to is for "quality" where a call is selected at random by a manager to review how the staff member conducted themselves on the call, or should a complaint escalate and either the caller requests the recording or its found necessary to track it down to see who is lying etc.
You need highest privileges to be able to access call recordings most staff members do not have access to this and it can often be quite difficult to find the call that is needed they aren't named by caller it just has time and date and a random ID as the file name.

I don't think that professionally your mh team would refuse to engage with your gp, however I don't think you want to hear anything that doesn't go along with your thinking. I have no idea what was in my post at 5 to 10 that was against the guidelines, but I think I'm 'out' from trying to help here.

I've made this point to my higher ups before but it's simply because there's a standard operating procedure/expectation that all calls are recorded.

I made it in the context of a paramedic working on the road -many of the calls I'm sent to investigate can be managed over the phone so I've argued to be allowed to call the patient and give them the information (then document the conversation) rather than drive 20miles to do so face to face and document that conversation. They forbad calling (from a work mobile phone) as they couldn't record the call, even though obviously im not going to make a recording in the patients home. Its purely because its standard operating procedure that calls are recorded.

@UPSETPATIENT "The conversation was sensitive and found it triggering to listen to the conversation" but you only listened to it because of your SAR? You had no other reason that you'd ever listen to it?!

And you have strong evidence of this - via the recorded call...

Aware this has been covered but just to reiterate my experience working in a GP practice - all calls in/out are recorded - it's not typical though for anyone to listen to them- the Drs wouldn't be able to by themselves. Normally when you sign the documentation to register at the surgery there will be a mention of it. This has been widespread for many years, the same as hospital phone lines, 111 and 999.

But you're right that staff are asked to remind people that calls are recorded - "before for we start I want to let you know that all calls are recorded, but do remain confidential. If you'd like to see how we use this information please see the privacy statement on our website..." But not doing this doesn't make anything 'illegal'. Anecdotally I think it's rare for clinicians to give this prompt in every call.

What's probably worse in some ways is lots of people now use clinical AI programmes to help write consultation notes - the computer in the room listens in and writes up the consult - seen it use and was very impressed by the accuracy -likely to become the standard over the next few years considering how much time it can save.

Most surgeries record calls. It is a wide spread thing.
Nothing within the calls that pertain to a patients care can be shared with anyone else without the patients consent. No one would/should have shared the information you gave during the call with anyone else. Doctors are not allowed to break confidentiality without consent.
99% of the calls are not listened to. They will be listened to is something happens or as a point of training mainly for reception staff or learning for clinical staff.
The calls are mainly recorded to protect both patients and staff from being accused of doing or saying something they have not done.
Most people welcome evidence of their conversations as it means there is objective proof of what has been said compared with what has been documented in the notes. You said yourself the GP had written they'd explained things in the notes they didn't. The recording proves this.

I think ultimately as long as the data is ‘kept’ correctly….i would imagine that they could say it’s to help you and no one can listen to it etc….

i do think they must inform you though and I would really push the evidence that they didn’t inform you of the recording

si if you call into your surgery right now….then they don’t say we record conversations?

nit in the gp appointment but just if you rang up now and go run the queue?

That’s a really good point, but it seems that OP is just worried about what she possibly said about her mental health?

People tend to be more abusive over the phone than they would dare to be in person. You can get ranting and death threats on the phone but when they actually have to come in and look you in the eye, they simmer the fuck down. You want evidence of that, especially if its a repeat offender that you want to deregister.

For all those saying that the recording is to help record keeping, give ‘protection’ and enable quality control, how come in a face to face consultation this isn’t necessary? GP in person still has to make notes, could give a poor quality consultation or the patient could threaten them - no recording deemed necessary then? No requirement for a chaperone listening in person making recording superfluous.

Have you accessed the practices privacy notice (it may also be called a privacy policy)- it should be available on the practice website, and does it cover the recording of telephone calls?

If there is nothing in the privacy notice about recording of telephone calls, and the telephone system doesn't advise you that calls are being recorded, it seems likely the practice is failing to meet the 1st data protection principle because the personal data processing involved in making the recording is not transparent. However, if it is in the privacy policy, and it is accessible to you as a patient, they will have fulfilled that transparency principle, even if you haven't read it.

If I can offer some suggestions as to the way forward:

• Find the contact details of the practices Data Protection Officer, and contact them to complain that the transparency requirement of the first data protection principle isn't being met by the practice.

• Ask the data protection officer to confirm the purpose for which the recording of telephone calls occurs, the organisational and technical measures that the practice has in place to protect the recordings once they are made, who has access to the recordings and in what circumstances, and how long the recordings are kept for. The responses to these questions will (hopefully) inform and reassure you, or at least enable the Data Protection Officer to identify the failings of the practice in these areas.

• Make a 'erasure request' under Article 17 of the UK General Data Protection Regulation, to request that the recording be deleted by the practice and/or make a 'restriction of processing' request under Article 18 of the UK GDPR to request that the recording not be further processed, including any onward sharing of it that you may be concerned about. These rights do not always apply, but again getting the DPO to process these requests will identify any failings of the practice.