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What’s the source for this oft repeated assertion?

38 replies

tamade · 28/02/2025 11:01

I just watched a short clip where a lady says that by any measure of welfare (lists life expectancy, wealth, MH, and many more things) unmarried and childless women are better off. And for men the opposite is true. She says it is because the women pour their hearts and lives into their families.

It sounds plausible and I read similar comments on here every few weeks. I just googled it and the first half a dozen links, including papers seemed to say the opposite: everyone is better off in a couple (married or otherwise).

So where does this theory come from? What’s the truth?
Is it reasonable to accept the statement?

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DPotter · 28/02/2025 15:49

The earliest I'm aware of is from the Camberwell studies in the 1960s, quite early in the 60s IIRC. The research came up with some interesting findings - married men 'happiest', then single women, then married women and lastly single men.

They also found that 1 in 10 people were clinically depressed at some point in their lives and that church attendance was a 'protection' against depression.

I have no idea if this was ever replicated in Camberwell or elsewhere. I'm sure if there was a similar study today it would provide much more nuanced findings, as the research techniques have improved if nothing else. It was still well regarded as a body of research in the 1980s when I was at uni, studying Psychology. It made total sense to me then as a single woman and it makes total sense to me now as a partnered woman.

Gwenhwyfar · 28/02/2025 15:14

"You can't die in childbirth if you don't have a child so is that not a factor."

In the rich world in 2025? No, I wouldn't think so!
The OECD rate is currently at 22 per 100,000 compared with 5% in the middle ages.

sunshine244 · 28/02/2025 13:27

People often get mixed up with correlation and causation.

You would need to separate people who have chosen to be single vs those single through circumstances such as DV, children with disabilities, having health issues etc.

As an aside I've been reading some stats from fathers rights organisations about how children being cared for only by one parent (generally the mum) have significantly higher chance of living in poverty, being mentally unwell, having experienced DV etc. Which is true. But they then use this as evidence to say that children must therefore ALWAYS be better off with equal care with both parents. Which is a massively flawed assumption when it doesn't take into account the possible reasons those children don't have contact with the other parent in the first place.

Gwenhwyfar · 28/02/2025 13:04

Miaowzabella · 28/02/2025 12:18

The default assumption seems to be that increased life expectancy is a good thing, but I'm not convinced that it is, beyond a certain point.

No, it's not. People talk about healthspan now i.e. how long you can live an active, independent life.

Gwenhwyfar · 28/02/2025 13:01

"I think statistically men are much less likely to stick around with a sick spouse"

Yes, I've seen that too. Shocking how many men leave their ill wives.

"cohabiting in USA is much less stable than cohabiting in Europe including UK."

Possibly because it's less common there so the types of couples that cohabit instead of getting married are less stable? I think the ONS showed that when cohabiting was less common, cohabiting before marriage led to higher divorce rates, but when cohabiting became more common, the opposite became true.

sunshine244 · 28/02/2025 12:47

The stats likely don't take into account how complex life is.

Just as one example, single parents are far more like statistically to be carers for children with disabilities. That's because you are much more likely to get divorced if you have a disabled child, and the Mum is nearly always the main carer. Having a disabled child means you're more likely to have mental health issues, low income etc. With knock-on effect on mental wellbeing etc.

I am in a lot of carer groups for parents of autistic children and I have yet to see a single Dad at any of those groups. Rarely a man at all, for that matter. The difference is that when still in a relationship there is often more of a financial and practical buffer.

theyreallyaredicks · 28/02/2025 12:42

There are so many metrics aren’t there? I think on many I am living what is supposed to be the dream family life and in many respects I am and am very happy. Yet there is so much expectation out on women - I was a very success in woman in a long-hours creative business who led quite a wild and free ‘bohemian’ life. Now, in order to give my kids the most productive start in life, I am living in a nice safe conventional town and working in a nice stable conventional job for which I’m very grateful but my life has zero edge and I seem to be committed for every hour I’m awake with a huge domestic load as DH works away in the week. Also the days of throwing money at that problem to make it better are over due to CoL crisis.

I’m not sure if I would in fact be happier now living as I was in a less routine, predictable less electric life - maybe that would now feel a bit tiring! But yes I have definitely made life choices in the interest of making my children’s lives better and not my own. The kids however do bring me a deep and frequent joy I never really anticipated. Still have teens to go though!

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 28/02/2025 12:24

Does it depend on your yardstick for measuring?

I'm single with adult children and I'm the happiest and wealthiest I've ever been. My last couple of relationships were not exactly wonderful. my children are all independent and solvent and I can pretty much do as I want without the financial drain of a man wanting things or the kids needing things. I'm at the age where I'm still healthy and able to get out and about. I regard this (I'm mid sixties) as the sweet spot.

But I can imagine that someone in my position who doesn't have kids might be lonely, or who doesn't have money might be stressed. I live in a lovely cottage in a gorgeous rural setting - someone exactly like me only with noisy neighbours in an urban environment might not have it so good.

So much is individual.

iamnotalemon · 28/02/2025 12:21

Miaowzabella · 28/02/2025 12:18

The default assumption seems to be that increased life expectancy is a good thing, but I'm not convinced that it is, beyond a certain point.

@Miaowzabella

I have to agree with you to be honest.

Miaowzabella · 28/02/2025 12:18

The default assumption seems to be that increased life expectancy is a good thing, but I'm not convinced that it is, beyond a certain point.

latetothefisting · 28/02/2025 12:09

tamade · 28/02/2025 11:39

Yes it makes sense, everything you’ve written is totally reasonable. After watching the clip I searched for articles about it and expected loads of confirmation, but actually it was the opposite. Hence the question really.

what did you google? I googled 'single women happiest' and got back links to the exact studies.
From what I can see the initial assertion comes from an American Time Use Survey c. 2018 and a 'happiness expert' wrote a book on it and gave speeches etc. Some people have since said that he misinterpreted some of the answers.

This gives a summary of other studies on the topic https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/19485506241287960

but ultimately, why does it matter? 100% of other people could say that ice cream tastes better than cake, but if I prefer cake then I'll buy cake! I can only evaluate my own happiness.

We only know the lives we are living and can't definitively say whether we would be happier or unhappier in different circumstances. I might think I'd be happier single than married to my friend Amy's husband Bob, but she loves Bob so would be happier married to him than single. I could be in an unhappy relationship with Colin so, if responding to the survey, might be recorded as being unhappier than my single neighbour Jane, but if I'd married Jack instead I could have been happier than her. So it's not marriage itself that's the relevant factor, it's the specific person.

There are so many variable factors e.g. in some cases it's the benefits (like financial) marriage can bring rather than being married itself - e.g. if a woman had a household income (whether that's joint or her sole wage) of £50k she might find life less of a struggle than with a single income of £25k.

Even if you asked the same person, their happiness level could change from month to month. For me, being single during lockdown, for example, (particularly before bubbles) was much harder than being single when you could go out and have as much human interaction as you wanted. But the same would probably apply to those in unhappy relationships/DV.

ginasevern · 28/02/2025 12:07

KimberleyClark · 28/02/2025 11:53

Childless not by choice couples can have happy marriages too!

Yes, sorry I didn't phrase that very well and realised after I'd posted. Actually the happiest couples I know in my age group (60's) are those that never had children whether by choice or not.

KimberleyClark · 28/02/2025 12:03

iamnotalemon · 28/02/2025 11:59

@TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis

True.

I think there are pros and cons to all living situations and it's about trying to find the positive in what you have rather than always feel like you're missing out on something.

Sure, I'd love to meet someone but whether the romanticised version in my head and reality are the same, unlikely.

Yes. The secret to happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have.

trivialMorning · 28/02/2025 12:01

I think it hard to work out as so many varriables.

I think statistically men are much less likely to stick around with a sick spouse and age difference till recently were more usual to have women as younger spouse.

I know Dmum last decade been dominated by Dad's ill health and then death. Dad older than Mun got to stay out of hospital and have better care and even die at home because he had Mum there. Dad's cousin got same condition and no partner or kids and it's quite bleak for them - desperately trying to stay home and buy in care.

I heard from guest on Triggernometry cohabiting in USA is much less stable than cohabiting in Europe including UK. USA unless married odds really stacked against both parents being around most of kids childhoods - so single with kids really hard there.

So clearly cultrual lcoation and age group studies is going to affect the research.

iamnotalemon · 28/02/2025 12:00

@TorroFerney

Thanks for giving me other things to be grateful for today🤣🤣

iamnotalemon · 28/02/2025 11:59

@TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis

True.

I think there are pros and cons to all living situations and it's about trying to find the positive in what you have rather than always feel like you're missing out on something.

Sure, I'd love to meet someone but whether the romanticised version in my head and reality are the same, unlikely.

TorroFerney · 28/02/2025 11:57

You can't die in childbirth if you don't have a child so is that not a factor. And you can't get murdered by your partner if you are single. That must have some bearing on the figures.

My mother - 82 - used to tell me on repeat as a child that there was nothing more dangerous than having a baby.

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 28/02/2025 11:55

iamnotalemon · 28/02/2025 11:52

@TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis

That makes sense and I'd say that's a conservative estimate of time too.

Well, an average is an average. And I guess single people don't have half the burden of couples.

When single people complain about their lot, they always seem a bit touchy when I point out that they don't have to compromise or live with other people's crap etc!

When I lived alone, I used the same plate for every meal - just washed and left to dry. It was blissfully simple.

pearbottomjeans · 28/02/2025 11:55

I’m far better off financially for being married 🫣 there’s no way my sector could pay as much as DH makes.

Physically though, utterly fucked. Really so many ailments for my young age.

Joy wise, off the charts. Ditto stress though. The parenting paradox!

KimberleyClark · 28/02/2025 11:53

ginasevern · 28/02/2025 11:44

In my experience, unmarried and childfree women have a better life expectancy and childfree couples (by choice) have happier marriages. That's just my experience though from 67 years on this planet.

Childless not by choice couples can have happy marriages too!

iamnotalemon · 28/02/2025 11:52

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 28/02/2025 11:51

An Australian study found that women were, on average, doing an additional 45m per day of unpaid labour in the home.

All other things being equal, that means another 4-6h of labour a week - usually physical. And that's just the average.

A single, childless woman only had to look after her own needs. A single, childless man is missing out of the free labour of a woman.

@TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis

That makes sense and I'd say that's a conservative estimate of time too.

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 28/02/2025 11:51

An Australian study found that women were, on average, doing an additional 45m per day of unpaid labour in the home.

All other things being equal, that means another 4-6h of labour a week - usually physical. And that's just the average.

A single, childless woman only had to look after her own needs. A single, childless man is missing out of the free labour of a woman.

doodahdayy · 28/02/2025 11:45

We would definitely be better off financially without 2 kids and my health would be better. I've been left with high blood pressure at a relatively young age from having preeclampsia twice. I do have a lovely and supportive husband. If that wasn't the case I would be more affected health and finance wise.

tamade · 28/02/2025 11:44

iamnotalemon · 28/02/2025 11:42

@tamade

I don't know if it's true or not but I was just adding my experience as I know I'm the minority on MN.

I know that’s kind of my point, it rings so true.

OP posts:
ginasevern · 28/02/2025 11:44

In my experience, unmarried and childfree women have a better life expectancy and childfree couples (by choice) have happier marriages. That's just my experience though from 67 years on this planet.