Is this hourly rate too high?

there was a FB post on a local town site in Devon last week on this topic. Got very heated as the poster was being charged £30 ph and wondered if that was the going rate. Many people said if the cleaner was good and you are happy then pay it. Many others, including local cleaners, said £15 was more like it.

mym mum in the SE had a weekly cleaner that I paid for around 6-7 years ago. She left the property immaculate because she only did half the house (3 bed semi) in 3 hours, then the other half the following week. She told me she was putting up her prices to £20ph and I said I wouldn’t pay that. She left. We got someone else for £15ph for 2 hours a week. No, the house is not as spotless, because the new cleaner does not hoover the floor on her hands and knees with the upholstery attachment, but it’s cleaned to an acceptable standard.

cleaning is a NMW job. It’s unskilled (yes you can do it well), no qualifications, no barriers to entry, you don’t have to go to college to learn it, cost of products minimal really. I’m not sure why people think it’s NOT.

re the FB post, at £30 per hour, it works out to £47,000 pa, allowing for a 6.5hr day and 5 weeks off per year for sick/holiday. Less some expenses, £1k for insurance, mileage and products. That’s almost into the 40% tax bracket. I’m drafting my new cleaning business website as we speak.

My Gardner charges£28 an hour but I only need him for 2 hours every 3 weeks because he does a great job within the time. I don't begrudge him as he travels 12 miles to me

I live in Central London and pay £18 per hour, paid direct to the cleaner with no agency involved. It was £16 per hour last year and we made the decision to increase it - she didn’t ask us. So £25 seems a lot to me.

Rather than keep going on about it, just make a choice. Pay what she wants or don't. It's that simple. You can't change what she charges. You clearly think she charges too much, so do it yourself or find someone cheaper.

Is she using her own products or yours? And she will have other business related overheads to pay such as insurance too

I’m in the South East just outside London, and we pay £15 to the cleaner plus £5 an hour to the franchises, so that sounds a lot!

Yes, £25/hour seems high. Have you shopped around a bit? That's the obvious next step OP, if you really are looking for a cleaner.

I think it's expensive. I've been researching recently for my dad, and most cleaners around here (East Midlands) charge around £17 per hour. A few charge a bit less, a few charge a bit more.

Obviously, this particular cleaner is free to charge whatever she likes, and if she has enough clients who are happy to pay her at that rate, all power to her. In your shoes, though, I would probably be looking at alternatives to see if I could get a comparable service from another supplier.

Anyway, all the ins and outs of how this cleaner is set up are irrelevant really. As with any business, they are free to charge what they like, for whatever reason they like, and the market determines if they can attract business at that rate. Supply and demand.

OP has already said she has done some research and £25/hour is not unheard of in her area - so, the market is willing to pay that rate for cleaning services.

Whether anyone thinks that rate is "fair" or justified has nothing to do with it.

And I imagine if you tell a cleaner (or any business!) "I don't think I should pay you that rate because it's the same as what I earn and I don't think you can justify charging that" - they will tell you to take your business elsewhere or do the job yourself!

If she is running it through an LTD company, and paying herself a wage that is not liable for any NI, she has been very poorly advised by her accountant, because that is stupid from a long term / retirement planning perspective....

And it's really that not that uncommon, if she is a good cleaner in high demand, to be running it through a LTD company(a few posts above @Tryingtokeepgoing even mentioned her cleaner does that!)

In Ireland it's about 12 to 15€ a hour so that's about that's about 10 to 12 pounds

She could be running her cleaning as a Ltd company - it would make sense from a liability perpective and is certainly how my cleaner operates. So, if she’s paying herself through payroll she will be effectively paying both employees and employees NI.

eta @YoshiIsCute beat me to it :)

what do you mean by too high? That's what she charges!
you pays your money and you takes your choice!

Depends how she is set up. If she’s set up as a limited company, she will be paying NI twice (as her company employs her).

Unless you are hiring her for 8 hours at a time (which most people don’t), as well as other overheads and having to fund holidays and sick pay, she needs to pay for travelling from one client to another.

She may get £25 an hour but if she can only charge for 5 or 6 hours a day (while still being occupied with work for the full 8 or 9 hours), it massively reduces her take home pay.

I paid this 5 years ago in the Midlands so it sound reasonable for a cleaner who is properly insured and who actually declares her income to the tax man (so not cash in hand).

As you’ll see I mentioned holiday and pension. Plus you make an assumption I work from employers premises.
If you believe it costs £70ph for all that may I suggest your running costs are too high

£17-£19 an hour is the going rate where we are, midlands. I wouldn't pay £25.

Presumably you don't pay towards the rent, utilities and maintenance of your employer's premises?

Whereas the hairdresser has rent, utilities, insurance, cleaning, staffing, bank charges, subscriptions, etc to pay out of what she charges you. Plus unpaid holidays and sick leave, paying her own pension, etc etc.

Don’t forget that from April your employer will be paying around £3.75 an hour employers NI on your £25.50, which if the cleaner is doing things properly (and there’s no reason to believe they aren’t) also has to be factored in to the rate you’re charged.

£25 per day

7 hr day

Allow 1 unpaid hour travelling per day between clients ( not including first and last trips to home ) - So 6 paid hrs a day

And she takes 5 weeks holiday per year
And budgets for 5 sick days a year

So she works at best 230 days a year and 6 hrs a day leads to a gross pay of 34500 form which pensions and NI and tax get paid

But out of that she needs to take other costs ( insurance, accountancy , possible materials)

The travel times might be more

And it's possible that she can't fill all the hours each day -perhaps someone cancels on odd weeks ( clients ill or on holiday ) or she has an hour unfilled because no one wants just an hour of cleaning

So at best a pretty average wage and physically demanding over the week

Would you begrudge people getting paid a wage that enabled them to minimise any benefits they need and to claim ?

I get where you are coming from @Question285 I’m in a profession which, when I state job, people say ‘oh wow’. It took me Over 10yrs to completely qualify, I have further qualifications, am specialist and experienced.
My gross pay is £29.50 ph (can’t face working out net). Yes I get paid holiday and pension contributions. But when I pay my hairdresser the equivalent of over £100ph for my simple haircut I do wonder.