Page 11 | To wish Starmer would make a unilateral decision to rejoin the EU?

Biscuitsnotcookies · 27/02/2025 19:52

EasternEcho · 27/02/2025 19:49

But NATO doesn't work that way. Nobody "pays" their fair share. Countries invest in their own military up to a certain percentage of their GDP: Furthermore, so far NATO has been invoked only for Europe and Canada to come to the aid of US in wars started by them. The US has not come to the aid of Europe under NATO. I don't think Trump understands NATO. He seems to think that the US is a hired mercenary force that will defend if you "pay" it.

Show quote history

Exactly and most EU countries haven’t invested at all in their military infrastructure for decades and decades. With the exception of France and Poland.

Upstartled · 27/02/2025 19:52

I mean, even outside of the fact that it is logistically moot, what is this reflex drive for a dictatorship?

MemorableTrenchcoat · 27/02/2025 19:52

Antsinmypantsneedtodance · 27/02/2025 19:08

YABU I don't know anyone who voted leave who regrets the decision. I'd expect full scale riots if he even attempted anything of the like. He and his party are hugely disliked, especially amongst the sterotype population who voted leave. Making that kind of decision would be disaster.

America may have ghosted us because of our current goverment who have been fairly obvious in their opinions of the new American President.

Edited

Interesting anecdote. I know several people who voted leave and now regret their decision.

Upstartled · 27/02/2025 19:51

Having not put it in the manifesto or made any indication that this was on the cards, you think Starmer should bypass our all democratic processes, and attempt to unilaterally rejoin the EU?

Theunamedcat · 27/02/2025 19:50

They don't want or need us back in

We won't get favorable conditions if we rejoin we will be worse off than we were before

It's pointless

EasternEcho · 27/02/2025 19:49

Biscuitsnotcookies · 27/02/2025 19:42

I don’t think we are going to be served to any country on a ‘silver platter’ what I do think however is Trump quite rightly wants countries like Germany and others in the EU to pay their fair share towards NATO, which they have never done to date.
So he is playing hardball and quite frankly why should the US pay for Europe’s security?

Show quote history

But NATO doesn't work that way. Nobody "pays" their fair share. Countries invest in their own military up to a certain percentage of their GDP: Furthermore, so far NATO has been invoked only for Europe and Canada to come to the aid of US in wars started by them. The US has not come to the aid of Europe under NATO. I don't think Trump understands NATO. He seems to think that the US is a hired mercenary force that will defend if you "pay" it.

HhalloNine · 27/02/2025 19:48

edwinbear · 27/02/2025 19:42

He can’t rejoin the EU and put VAT on school fees. It’s illegal to tax education in the EU. Labour are absolutely wedded to taxing private schools and they won’t give that up. And frankly, people in the UK seem to hate private schools more than they hate Brexit, so can’t see it would go down well, regardless of any benefits.

Nah, that wouldn't even enter into my voting to rejoin the EU.

Biscuitsnotcookies · 27/02/2025 19:47

StandFirm · 27/02/2025 19:45

But it's not really the point though... Trump knows full well that most countries can't afford a sudden increase. Not saying that the ones lagging behind like Italy and Spain for example shouldn't pull their weight, but the fact is he doesn't actually want to protect Europe. The % increase is an excuse. And what has he just done? 25% tariffs on goods coming from the EU. Now THAT"s really going to help raise the funds quickly! I suspect he just really wants NATO to go away.

Show quote history

Well it isn’t serving the US and they are paying billions for it, so I do see their point of view to some degree. Europe and especially Germany can well afford the increase, and their defence is their responsibility.

Chuchoter · 27/02/2025 19:47

Hell no!

Kendodd · 27/02/2025 19:46

Wildflowers99 · 27/02/2025 18:59

That’s all, really. Yes it would be ‘undemocratic’ but should we sacrifice national interest on the altar of a vote from 10 years ago that everyone seems to regret?

We feel adrift during a scary time, and the US has all but ghosted us.

I don't know anyone who regrets voting Leave, they would all 100% vote Leave again. Loads of them love Trump as well.
Well, actually I do know a couple of people who regret voting Leave, but they regretted it immediately after the vote and didn't really want to leave in the first place.

HhalloNine · 27/02/2025 19:46

ButterCrackers · 27/02/2025 19:15

Labour agrees with Brexit. People who voted for Labour are in agreement with Brexit. They won the election.

Not true.

People who voted Labour also may have voted against Brexit.

Buzyizzy21 · 27/02/2025 19:46

💯 agree with you. It’s a very worrying time and we should be doing all we can to realign ourselves with the EU.

StandFirm · 27/02/2025 19:45

Biscuitsnotcookies · 27/02/2025 19:42

I don’t think we are going to be served to any country on a ‘silver platter’ what I do think however is Trump quite rightly wants countries like Germany and others in the EU to pay their fair share towards NATO, which they have never done to date.
So he is playing hardball and quite frankly why should the US pay for Europe’s security?

Show quote history

But it's not really the point though... Trump knows full well that most countries can't afford a sudden increase. Not saying that the ones lagging behind like Italy and Spain for example shouldn't pull their weight, but the fact is he doesn't actually want to protect Europe. The % increase is an excuse. And what has he just done? 25% tariffs on goods coming from the EU. Now THAT"s really going to help raise the funds quickly! I suspect he just really wants NATO to go away.

BlondiePortz · 27/02/2025 19:44

I am still trying to work out how the leavers think it is better now

UndermyShoeJoe · 27/02/2025 19:44

StandFirm · 27/02/2025 19:42

Trump and Musk ain't got the memo

Show quote history

Fortunately I also don’t live in America.

America wanted trump.

Uk wanted Brexit.

Partybaggage · 27/02/2025 19:44

It's happened. I voted remain and wish we hadn't left. But there's no way back in without spending billions of pounds. Instead of always looking back and wishing we hadn't left, we should be looking forwards.

IMustDoMoreExercise · 27/02/2025 19:43

ARealitycheck · 27/02/2025 19:21

As a PP said, the EU is not the land of milk and honey many remainers seem to think. If anything our departure along with our money has put Countries like Germany and France in a difficult place financially. They are trying to plug the deficit our payment removal created. Along with having a larger than before economic migrant crisis from other EU countries that they cannot refuse.

There are rumors that France will have to bailed out soon which will probably cause riots in Germany as they will have to pay for it.

edwinbear · 27/02/2025 19:42

He can’t rejoin the EU and put VAT on school fees. It’s illegal to tax education in the EU. Labour are absolutely wedded to taxing private schools and they won’t give that up. And frankly, people in the UK seem to hate private schools more than they hate Brexit, so can’t see it would go down well, regardless of any benefits.

Biscuitsnotcookies · 27/02/2025 19:42

StandFirm · 27/02/2025 19:39

If NATO is toothless, would you rather we're served to the Russians on a silver platter?

Show quote history

I don’t think we are going to be served to any country on a ‘silver platter’ what I do think however is Trump quite rightly wants countries like Germany and others in the EU to pay their fair share towards NATO, which they have never done to date.
So he is playing hardball and quite frankly why should the US pay for Europe’s security?

StandFirm · 27/02/2025 19:42

UndermyShoeJoe · 27/02/2025 19:41

North Korea is that way 👉

We don’t live in a dictatorship

Trump and Musk ain't got the memo

UndermyShoeJoe · 27/02/2025 19:41

North Korea is that way 👉

We don’t live in a dictatorship

StandFirm · 27/02/2025 19:41

Biscuitsnotcookies · 27/02/2025 19:39

Let’s imagine we join military forces with Germany and their broomsticks 🧹 that’s really going to deter Putin and China 🙄

So best to jump on our backs like good little puppies and do nothing?

StandFirm · 27/02/2025 19:39

Biscuitsnotcookies · 27/02/2025 19:37

So you are suggesting a European army? That’s going to go down well….😳

Show quote history

If NATO is toothless, would you rather we're served to the Russians on a silver platter?

Biscuitsnotcookies · 27/02/2025 19:39

Let’s imagine we join military forces with Germany and their broomsticks 🧹 that’s really going to deter Putin and China 🙄

Azureal · 27/02/2025 19:37

Absolutely not. That would be a very slippery slope.

I'm British but was studying abroad in Paris in 2005 when the French voted no to the treaty on a European constitution (and were told they voted wrong and to vote again). I vividly remember walking in the day after to university and hearing all my peers complain that they should never have let 'the people' vote because they are too stupid.

It shaped my political views and my views on the EU who thought they could tell countries to vote again if they 'got it wrong'. It's part of the reason why I voted Leave and would again.

I'm sure you'll think I voted Leave because I'm a bigot or anti-immigrant or I believed a bunch of lies on a bus. But I'm none of those things.

I didn't vote for Starmer but I accept the public vote. The same should apply to Brexit.