There is no dignity in alcoholism

You're throwing up straw men with the "oh so it's fine for him to do XYZ because he's an alcoholic?" which literally nobody is arguing. Nobody is saying it's fine. What they're saying is that if we actually want to solve the problem, we need to approach it in a way that involves some compassion. Throwing someone in a cell for a night or fining them might appease your sense of justice but it does nothing to solve the problem. This man will still be an alcoholic the next day.

To me, just saying "alcoholism is a choice" and talking about sending them for a night in the cells is lazy and simplistic. It appeals to people's desire to "grab the pitchforks" but it doesn't seek to actually reduce the impact on victims (such as everybody on the train who witnessed the behaviour), because the desire to punish is greater than the desire to actually protect society. If we want to eradicate alcoholism then we need to understand and treat the root causes rather than just punish what we see as purely a moral failing.

I wouldn't like it either op but at the same time he was old and an alcoholic. Got to feel sorry for him if anything.

What a nasty, disgusting thing to say. Women are perfectly entitled to be ‘uptight’ about men exposing themselves.

Nobody is saying that. The behaviour of alcoholic is often disgusting and unacceptable. My husband is an alcoholic, so I know this only too well. What people are saying is that there is more to it than that. The person themselves isn’t disgusting, they are ill. My husband has been sober for 6 years now, with just one single brief lapse in that time. At his worst, he was horrible, but when not in the throws of addiction, he is a lovely, intelligent, kind, funny man.

Unpleasant all round. He should be in some kind of institution, being looked after is my opinion.

I understand your anger, OP. I'm the widow of an alcoholic who put me and my DC through hell, and my mother also ended up an alcoholic. I run a RL support group for the relatives of addicts - that's my way of reacting. And yes, my late husband also pissed in some very random places in the home towards the end, and I was very angry with him.

But I hope you find some support to help you work through all those difficult feelings and reach a point where you are at some kind of peace.

Given by how up tight you are being, I am not surprised you are so shocked and offended at the sight of a penis.

It actually isn't. Only if with intent to cause distress.

Whatever the intent (or lack of), the effect was the same on those around him.

The effect may not have been the same on others, people with different back stories and opinions may have felt differently.

The impact on you was you felt afraid, angry and upset and that is understandable given your previous experiences.

Legally speaking, intent is relevant when determining whether a crime was committed, whether someone is guilty, what the appropriate sentence would be.

YANBU. I don't get all the vitrue signalling on here. To be so drunk that you publicly urinate and expose oneself is gross, gross, gross.

Not all alcoholics have a horrific life story. Sometimes alcoholism is self inflicted and I think that's why people often find empathy in short supply.

im not sure what the point of this thread is but obviously it’s not on for drunk people to expose themselves, however…. There but for the grace of god go I….. no one thinks this is good… what point are you trying to make?

I totally understand your viewpoint from one perspective. It's nasty and horrible to see this in public.

However if I take a look into the future, I think my own brother could be like this in 20/30 years time. Pushing 40 and been addicted to alcohol and drugs for 20 years, tried some many rehabs and detox programmes. Nothing works. I can only imagine it getting worse.

He has a self pitying nature and an addictive personality plus bad depression and insomnia.
He was such a sweet child. No one sets out in life to be like this. Very sad.

However I won't pretend it's ok, and people shouldn't have to witness these things so I voted YANBU.

Thing about alcohol- it is the acceptable drug. It;s not illegal to drink and it is an addictive drug that is socially acceptable to consume yet everyone who consumes it is at the end of the day probably addicted even in a small amount. Alcohol is the very last acceptable drug to take. British culture- we drink and we get drunk and we laugh about drunkenness and we socially bond over this. Yet we abhor people who become truly addicted to a drug that society pushes at every single level OF society. And blame them for becoming addicted to an addictive drug. And think 'I'm not like that'. And feel smug for not being like that.

The man you saw, OP - is having a very bad time in life. You might possibly be better to think 'There but for the grace of god'. Because I guarantee you will at some point have a 'weakness'. Hopefully you can move through whatever that is for you with purpose.

It was a horrible thing to witness, I think we can all agree, and it has been reported to the police. Of course it was upsetting, but I'm not sure what you want from this post, people are going to say you should be more compassionate, so you seem to want an argument. It is illegal I would think, to piss all over a train and be intoxicated and out of control in public.

He was drunk. That doesn't mean the effect on the people around him was any different.

It does mean the effect is different, context and intent are important. Intent is very important when determining if something is a crime and determining appropriate consequences. Intent is really important in justice processes.

If someone does something on purpose, to upset/frighten/offend people, that is different to doing something when unaware (whether through drink or another reason such as confusion due to health issues).

Being drunk doesn't make it ok, but it is different to deliberately doing something to someone.

Its an addiction, what dont people understand.

Addiction is selfish? Its an illness. Mental and physical that needs help.

An excuse? What a cruel thing to say.

You are obv lucky enough to not suffer from it.

But dont diminish it compared to other illnesses.

Because he was not in control of his faculties. He needs a shelter and a detox, not prison. A sober person taking a piss on the Tube is very different and is deliberately offending.

Drunks are destructive, abusive, gaslighting and harmful. They are also destroying themselves and in thrall to substances they can’t control.

You are projecting your personal emotional baggage onto a stranger at rock bottom.