There is no dignity in alcoholism

Did I ask you to pity him? I think you need to look at what's going on for you in this scenario rather than him and address what you can actually control here if you want to move forward and be less angry and upset, the only bit you can make a difference in is your own response to other peoples mistakes, misfortunes or thoughtlessness as you characterise it. My alcoholic mother has caused me unspeakable hurt and the only thing I can do about it is control my own actions and responses, she nearly ruined my life before I realised I needed to stop letting her.

This. I've closely known two alcoholics. Both grew up in good homes.

For every alcoholic ruining their own life, there will be a larger group (family and friends), whose lives are also being totally ruined by the selfishness of their alcoholic loved one. And while the alcoholic always has the excuse "I don't remember what I did [to you]" their poor victims are often left helpless, hurt and totally reduced by what they've endured.

So, totally agree with you, OP. My main sympathies are with the innocent victims.

What I want is to be able to travel home in peace without having to run away from a man who is exposed and pissing at people.

All of us women should be entitled to this. All of us in society should be entitled to this.

But realistically this isn't going to happen. This is London, people are wretched and selfish and from all ends of the mental health spectrum.

How are you going to try and control your environment to preclude any likelihood of your journeys being disturbed by such behaviour?

yes, everyone thinks it's great 🙄

I really don't mean to sound snippy @Emerald0897 but what on earth do you want from this thread?

You have several specific factors (not unique, but perhaps unusual in combination) which means you reacted to both the drunken man's antics, and his exposed penis, with more sensitivity and a more powerful reaction than some of us would.

That's fine - I totally respect that and am sorry on both counts that you had to experience either.

but then to write a generic blast on the concept of dignity in alcoholism, it just doesn't tally...

Yes alcoholics can be wretched. But the problem I think for you is that they're more visible in cities. Statistically, they're actually more numerous in rural areas. But you therefore don't see them as much.

My point is, this happened on the London tube. As in, you travel in London, which means you're statistically way more likely to see this stuff.

Are the drunks suddenly going to evaporate because you called out their selfishness? I'd argue there's going to be more in the next 10 to 20 years.

So again, what do you want from this thread that would make you feel happier about other's reactions?

You have no idea of the circumstances that have led him to this.

I try not to make assumptions. I regularly chat with homeless people in our area. You would probably be surprised at some of their backstories.

Maybe just thank your lucky stars that you don’t have a chaotic life and get on with your day?

True (although obviously recovery somewhere other than a cell would be preferable). I don’t think that’s quite what OP had in mind though. They just want punishment.

You're getting a rough time OP but I agree with you. We all have demons but we don't have a right to make that everyone else's problem.

@aniloD You're obviously not a sexual assault or rape survivor.

As someone currently dealing with an alcoholic ex in hospital with jaundice and trying to coparent our 9 year old autistic son i have absolutely zero sympathy or consideration. Yes its an illness but the chaos and anxiety it causes and the person has no idea of the damage they are doing.

Do you think this is the life he wanted and has deliberately carved out for himself?

YANBU OP.

my mum was an alcoholic and left a trail of destruction on her wake

She said why, @MissMoneyFairy

I went home upset at having to see a stranger's penis when I have been sexually assaulted in the past. Only now - later - am I really angry at having to see that.

How many more times are you going to tell us that you saw his penis? We get it.

If it was seeing his dick that was the main thing you object to, I would like to point out that plenty of sober men expose themselves on public transport, with a very different motive from that of an old man too drunk to even know where he was. I’d focus your ire on the actual sex criminals out there, rather than those afflicted with a horrific addiction that almost certainly causes more suffering to them than it does to you.

What would be the point in having a 6 page conversation where the only viewpoint mirrored YOUR EXACT life experience of alcoholics?!

how can anyone not understand that people have different views shaped by different life experiences?

there are some really weird comments on this thread (and I agree - weird title)

He won't be the only drunk person getting on a train or wandering the streets falling over, urinating, pooing, being sick, the police haven't got the time and resources to arrest and lock them all up. Station staff can't stop Every drunk person getting into the platform, alcohol is so easy to get hold of, cheap drinks, happy hours, boredom, trauma, depression, there's so many reasons people rely on alcohol including our discarded military veterans.

I refuse to believe that most of you would keep these attitudes if you actually encountered alcoholics every day

if you came home from work, as I did, to find two of them fighting by your garden gate so you couldn’t get in your house, and one screams at you as you try to edge by; as they drop all their junk in your garden; as you walk up and the street stinks of piss; as they attack each other with bricks left over from your neighbour building a garden wall; and this goes on over and over again for months - i refuse to believe you would all sadly shake your heads and imagine the sad lives they must have had, and forebear from contacting the council or police as you can’t imagine making their lives any harder

People saying he was filthy, stinking and homeless...
All the OP says is he was an old guy reeking of alcohol.

@Emerald0897 come on. It's not that the man exposed himself and urinated as he did that others are defending. It's the fact that some people are addicted, and that is sad and leads them to behave in anti-social ways.

but you conflate the two things. Alcoholism isn't simply bad because it leads to people urinating on public.

yes it's bad, but for a lot of reasons, not least the harm it does to the addict

Your title is also odd. I've never heard anyone say that there is dignity in alcholism so why do you think it's necessary to refute it?

you can be disgusted by the behaviours of alcoholics

you can acknowledge that nothing can be done to stop people becoming addicted to alcohol

both these things can be true at the same time

Uptight? You missed this, @Hufflemuff .

Actually no. I went home upset at having to see a stranger's penis when I have been sexually assaulted in the past. Only now - later - am I really angry at having to see that.

Of course you have to live with alcoholism. You have no power, or decent ideas, to stop it.

the people who do have the knowledge and expertise are also clear that you can’t stop alcoholism.

the idea that you think you can is ridiculous