Page 3 | There is no dignity in alcoholism

Emerald0897 · 2025-02-27T18:34:13+00:00

And I'm fucking tired of the selfishness of it. AIBU? Old guy on the tube today, totally reeking of alcohol, staggering everywhere and then actually exposing himself in order to piss all around the place, so everyone nearby had to scarper because it was actually in danger of soaking people. Utterly disgusting. He then fell out of the doors onto the platform at the next station. It's been reported to TFL staff and the British Transport Police. I've had two other alcoholics in my extended family, both of whom have caused massive disruption. I know we are supposed to have pity for people's mental health issues but honestly, the impact on others is just awful. It's so antisocial. I don't feel pity for the guy today. I feel utter disgust that he showed everyone his penis, and thankful my kids weren't with me. AIBU?

Original poster

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 22:14

MrsSkylerWhite · 27/02/2025 22:01

apologies @ Emerald0897 and @mathanxiety. Tried to quote your replies but it won’t let me for some reason. (Has also become bold for some reason?)

I very specifically meant that on public transport with lots of other people with you, @Emerald0897, it’s unlikely that this very drunk person would cause you harm. I would have laid him out had he tried to hurt you had I been there. I suspect lots of your fellow passengers would do the same. (though had he not, I would have viewed him with sympathy).

That’s horrendous, @mathanxiety . I’m really sorry that happened to you. Must have been completely terrifying. I was responding to the very specific circumstance in this post.

Like @mathanxiety , what an awful experience for you. I am sorry to hear it.

@MrsSkylerWhite we'll have to agree to differ, I have also seen enough drunken violence to not feel reassured that he was unlikely to hurt me.

It was frightening. It was. And yes, I have vented because of harm caused by people I have known who have abused alcohol and subsequently abused those around them.

I admit it. I was triggered, today.

Also re: sexual assault, which I didn't want to mention and wasn't intending to, but felt I had to when people kept suggesting I was overreacting to seeing... I won't repeat it again.

It's certainly been illuminating, reading people telling me I ought to pity him, I ought to feel sorry for people with alcohol problems, I'm overreacting... clutching my pearls, etc.

One thing's for sure. This board isn't a place for the vulnerable. Mumsnet's wild, when a woman can literally describe what I have, and get a pile-on telling her to pity a man who's going round behaving like that.

I do wonder if all the people prescribing 'kindness' have really had to live with the impact of an alcoholic in the family (we had two... only one is still alive, the other drank herself to death).

Thank you to everyone who did post helpful/supportive comments, or shared their experiences.

This isn't the place for me. Over and out (I don't know if we still have flouncers' corner, but I'm off).

OP posts:

Mum2jenny · 27/02/2025 22:12

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Getitwright · 27/02/2025 22:06

I don’t think alcoholics are exclusively male.

MrsSkylerWhite · 27/02/2025 22:01

apologies @ Emerald0897 and @mathanxiety. Tried to quote your replies but it won’t let me for some reason. (Has also become bold for some reason?)

I very specifically meant that on public transport with lots of other people with you, @Emerald0897, it’s unlikely that this very drunk person would cause you harm. I would have laid him out had he tried to hurt you had I been there. I suspect lots of your fellow passengers would do the same. (though had he not, I would have viewed him with sympathy).

That’s horrendous, @mathanxiety . I’m really sorry that happened to you. Must have been completely terrifying. I was responding to the very specific circumstance in this post.

WillIEverBeOk · 27/02/2025 21:57

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:31

There is no dignity in addiction. I agree.

There's also no dignity in being judgmental.

There is a lot of dignity in kindness.

"Be Kind" is what has gotten women in SO much mess and trauma. No, women do NOT need to 'Be Kind' to a man exposing himself.
Please stop with that gaslighting and guilting. Haven't you heard? Women are angry; the era of 'Be Kind' is over.

I also speak as someone in recovery for alcohol addiction, but there is no excuse for a man exposing himself lie that.

SunnieShine · 27/02/2025 21:57

I agree, OP. Alcoholics are a bloody menace.

WillIEverBeOk · 27/02/2025 21:54

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She's a sexual assault survivor, @Mum2jenny . You really have no awareness or sensitivity, do you. Please do go down to your local rape shelter where women are still traumatised and don't want to see men at all at the moment, tell them 'what's the matter? Its a penis, I'm sure you've seen one previously'....

dotdotdotdash · 27/02/2025 21:53

Hufflemuff · 27/02/2025 18:39

Are your pearls OK? You're clutching them pretty hard.

Bitchy and uncalled for comment that one!

mathanxiety · 27/02/2025 21:51

MrsSkylerWhite · 27/02/2025 21:40

I applaud the sentiment, in general, but sorry, I don't fancy being kind to this man. Women are always told to be kind. His behaviour was horrible.

If this man was an alcoholic, he had very little control over his behaviour.

What you witnessed was indeed very unpleasant but in that state he really wasn’t a danger to you.

I've been knocked down concrete station steps by a stumbling drunk, while pregnant. I've seen drunks vomiting on other passengers. I've seen drunks harass teenage girls.

Bollocks to "in that state he really wasn’t a danger to you."

CandelabraCat · 27/02/2025 21:50

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:23

Please don't tell me what I want. What I want is to be able to travel home in peace without having to run away from a man who is exposed and pissing at people. That is all. I don't want him to be 'punished'. I just don't want him anywhere near me.

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You’ve been very clear that you don’t care about people with alcohol dependence and that you’d be happy with this man getting a fine for his behaviour. So it certainly sounds like you’re in favour of a punishment. Either way, you sound oblivious to how any of this might work. A cell or a fine is not going to stop this man annoying other people the next day, so isn’t going to reduce the chance of you seeing people like him on any given day.

mathanxiety · 27/02/2025 21:48

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:42

Nothing to do with being a woman. I'm not even asking you to be kind to the man. I agree it was horrible behaviour. Report it, move on. I don't see what you gainby posting online about it. I'm judging you for this thread far more than I would judge a sad alcoholic in the Tube.

And I was raised by an alcoholic, absolutely loathed him and everything his alcoholism did to him and our family. He died hating himself for his alcoholism. I am alive and thriving despite that.

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So many people affected by someone else's drinking struggle, but I see little empathy in your post.

It's nice to have a chance to get something off your chest and to receive some validation for an experience that people really shouldn't have to experience.

I wonder if there is anything a woman could post here that she wouldn't get shamed and judged for.

moshmoshi · 27/02/2025 21:47

I don't know why you're getting so much grief OP, it sounds horrible and I'm sorry you had deal with it.

I think that kind of behaviour in public is absolutely disgusting, why should the general public just have to put up with it. Not sure what the solution is though.

mathanxiety · 27/02/2025 21:44

Velmy · 27/02/2025 20:52

It's obviously not fine.

Now, imagine how bad life would have to get for you - you personally - to be blasted out of your mind, filthy, stinking of alcohol, exposing yourself in public while you urinate in a tube carriage. Imagine the kind of things that would have to happen for you to end up that low.

That's where that person is. He didn't set out to end up that way.

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Now imagine a society that prefers to virtue signal instead of actually focusing on solutions to the problems.

We know that spending money on vastly enlarged and improved services for families and education and mental health services makes a difference but when it comes to putting our money where our mouth is, we're not so enthusiastic.

Original poster

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:43

How do you know he wasn't a danger to me? Were you there? Do you think alcoholics are never violent? I can assure you some are.

Sorry, edited to say, responding to your post @MrsSkylerWhite

OP posts:

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:42

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:33

I applaud the sentiment, in general, but sorry, I don't fancy being kind to this man. Women are always told to be kind. His behaviour was horrible.

Show quote history

Nothing to do with being a woman. I'm not even asking you to be kind to the man. I agree it was horrible behaviour. Report it, move on. I don't see what you gainby posting online about it. I'm judging you for this thread far more than I would judge a sad alcoholic in the Tube.

And I was raised by an alcoholic, absolutely loathed him and everything his alcoholism did to him and our family. He died hating himself for his alcoholism. I am alive and thriving despite that.

MrsSkylerWhite · 27/02/2025 21:40

I applaud the sentiment, in general, but sorry, I don't fancy being kind to this man. Women are always told to be kind. His behaviour was horrible.

If this man was an alcoholic, he had very little control over his behaviour.

What you witnessed was indeed very unpleasant but in that state he really wasn’t a danger to you.

Bakewelltart1 · 27/02/2025 21:39

You’re right, there is no dignity in being so publicly ill.
Everyone deserves dignity, together with a safe shelter, food, clean clothing and love.

Engineweld · 27/02/2025 21:36

Ihopeyouhavent · 27/02/2025 19:04

Seriously, who the fuck are you to judge another person. And no pity, you disgust me.

You turned your nasty judgmental nose up and went home, to a safe and probably warm loving home i bet.

He doesnt have that. Whether through his own fault or not. his life is fucking shit, and he'll probably die in shit.

There is no dignitary in any addiction.

I wish you could hear my applause 👏
My partner is a "functioning alcoholic" so doesn't receive as much "assistance" in the way of full time alcoholics. But believe me, there have been times when I've had to pick him up out of the garden (after contemplating leaving him there but the thought of these types of judgmental people has always made me help him)
He's fricking lucky he's got me!
That poor guy probably has no one or his addiction has took over

Original poster

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:33

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:31

There is no dignity in addiction. I agree.

There's also no dignity in being judgmental.

There is a lot of dignity in kindness.

I applaud the sentiment, in general, but sorry, I don't fancy being kind to this man. Women are always told to be kind. His behaviour was horrible.

OP posts:

JacquesHarlow · 27/02/2025 21:32

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:31

There is no dignity in addiction. I agree.

There's also no dignity in being judgmental.

There is a lot of dignity in kindness.

Beautiful post.

Strangerthanfictions · 27/02/2025 21:31

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:31

There is no dignity in addiction. I agree.

There's also no dignity in being judgmental.

There is a lot of dignity in kindness.

For the win ❤️

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:31

There is no dignity in addiction. I agree.

There's also no dignity in being judgmental.

There is a lot of dignity in kindness.

Retirementsoon · 27/02/2025 21:31

I would not like to encounter that myself.

Original poster

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:30

JacquesHarlow · 27/02/2025 21:25

I really don't mean to sound snippy @Emerald0897 but what on earth do you want from this thread?

You have several specific factors (not unique, but perhaps unusual in combination) which means you reacted to both the drunken man's antics, and his exposed penis, with more sensitivity and a more powerful reaction than some of us would.

That's fine - I totally respect that and am sorry on both counts that you had to experience either.

but then to write a generic blast on the concept of dignity in alcoholism, it just doesn't tally...

Yes alcoholics can be wretched. But the problem I think for you is that they're more visible in cities. Statistically, they're actually more numerous in rural areas. But you therefore don't see them as much.

My point is, this happened on the London tube. As in, you travel in London, which means you're statistically way more likely to see this stuff.

Are the drunks suddenly going to evaporate because you called out their selfishness? I'd argue there's going to be more in the next 10 to 20 years.

So again, what do you want from this thread that would make you feel happier about other's reactions?

I wanted a vent. About today. About being forced to see something I didn't want to see. About having to run away. About the damage caused to my family by two particular people with an alcohol problem. About the selfishness of alcoholism and the damage it causes to other people. About men and their selfishness and thoughtlessness in general. And I wanted to get my feelings out because I'm actually pretty upset and this afternoon, I was frightened.

So here I am, in the fight club that is AIBU. And I myself am wondering what I am getting out of this too. It was probably a mistake to post, but here we are, and it's certainly been... interesting, hearing people's points of view.

OP posts:

Retirementsoon · 27/02/2025 21:30

I agree op.