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To think that Trump is not going to honor any agreement about Ukraine

161 replies

FancyRedRobin · 27/02/2025 13:34

I'm seeing that Starmer is going over to say to Trump that he should offer security guarantees with the deal with Ukraine.

I just don't believe that Trump or America will honor any agreement made.

And what consequences can we leverage on them to make them do so? I'm not sure there enough levers to do so.

We've allowed them to have an outsize influence on world affairs and now the tiger is eating our face.

OP posts:
sleepwouldbenice · 28/02/2025 00:40

528htz · 27/02/2025 23:41

He'll probably backtrack on all this tomorrow anyway.

That's what I think. Whomever last muttered in his ear and flattered him

Poor King Charles tbh

MarsScarlet · 28/02/2025 00:39

This is an article from Russian online news Izvestia about Sir Keir Starmer's visit. It is of interest due to the obvious different bias. (I won't provide the source as it is Russian.)

"On February 27, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer is scheduled to follow French President Emmanuel Macron’s example and meet with US President Donald Trump in Washington to discuss Ukraine and European defense capabilities. Like Macron, Starmer will certainly try to dissuade Trump from engaging with Moscow.

"Kier Starmer, Emmanuel Macron, and German chancellor-elect Friedrich Merz now represent an anti-Trump bloc. Its task is to derail Trump’s peace initiatives," former Ukrainian Prime Minister Nikolay Azarov told Izvestia in an interview.

"Even if Starmer fails to influence Trump at a personal meeting, Britain will continue to undermine dialogue between Moscow and Washington anyway as it seeks continued bloodshed and hostilities in Ukraine, Rodion Miroshnik, the Russian Foreign Ministry’s ambassador-at-large in charge of overseeing the Kiev regime’s crimes, believes. "Britain is unique in that it does many things under the radar rather than overtly. And it holds major leverage on Ukraine’s special services and military units that it has been using so that the Moscow-Washington dialogue should not happen. <…> London always feels much more comfortable where there is a divide between Russia and the United States," the diplomat told Izvestia.

"The UK may challenge the Trump administration’s efforts to settle the Ukraine conflict by increasing assistance to Kiev so that the latter can stay afloat and continue hostilities," said Tigran Meloyan, an analyst at the HSE Center for Mediterranean Studies. Or else, the expert continued, Britain could undermine the settlement process by sending European troops to Ukraine in a move that would be unacceptable to Russia and could even sign the death warrant of any negotiations.

"It’s worth noting though that this initiative was put forward by Great Britain, not an EU-member state, and France but was never supported by the others in the EU," Meloyan added.
However, to exert pressure on London, Russia could use the pricing mechanism for oil, which, in turn, affects gasoline and consumer prices and would inevitably hurt the British economy, Ivan Loshkaryov, Associate Professor of the Department of Political Theory at MGIMO University, argues. "Besides, Russia may and will likely raise the issue of Britain’s destructive role at international venues, primarily at BRICS, the United Nations, at G20 meetings, and bilateral talks with the United States," the expert concluded.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 27/02/2025 23:50

Wish Trump and Putin would both just hurry up and die tbh

100PercentFaithful · 27/02/2025 23:49

Trump/Fart is a ridiculous oversized child.
When Kier Starmer gave him that letter from the King it totally reminded me of a child being given ‘Star of the Week’ by a Reception teacher.
Fair play to Starmer it seemed to do the trick though. He’s worked out the way to get the best out of Trump - butter him up.

FancyRedRobin · 27/02/2025 23:43

@528htz God only knows what nonsense or bile he'll be emitting next.
He's totally insane.

OP posts:
528htz · 27/02/2025 23:41

He'll probably backtrack on all this tomorrow anyway.

theboffinsarecoming · 27/02/2025 23:35

The words 'Trump' and 'honour' do not belong in the same sentence. Many things he may be, but honourable is not one of them.

LaurieFairyCake · 27/02/2025 23:35

Starmers doing a great job, he just did a Macron and corrected Trump when he said the money was loaned to Ukraine

Starmer said no, it's a gift

What's totally not shocking is nut job Trump saying he doesn't remember saying Zelensky was a dictator and said he was 'brave'

Wtf ! 😳😳😳

He's literally pretending he didn't say something recorded on camera a week ago !!

The other thing starmer has him agreeing to is a (somewhat) backstop - trump has just said that no one will be attacked while the Americans are there getting the minerals

DdraigGoch · 27/02/2025 23:30

MrsPernicious · 27/02/2025 19:34

Suddenly Macron's call for a European army seems quite sensible.
Plus even more doubt is cast about interference in the Brexit vote.

20 years ago middle class Russians were really busy sending their children to UK schools because we were all European.

A European Army wouldn't be sensible. The Germans would be trying to avoid it getting involved in anything while the Hungarians would be trying to sabotage it. At least Britain and France are currently able to act unilaterally.

Whatafustercluck · 27/02/2025 23:15

Kendodd · 27/02/2025 22:06

Absolutely sickening to watch Stamer sucking up to Trump.
I understand why he has to do this though and feel for him.

This nails it for me. We can all see multiple leaders sucking up to a despicable, woman hating, wholly dysfunctional, bullying imbecile purely because otherwise he'll pull our pants down, give us a wedgy, steal our lunch money and kick us to the floor for good measure. And it is sickening because there is no other solution. And we don't even know if courting this disgusting excuse of a man will even resolve anything. It all feels so hopeless. There's not even any point in being angry any more. The shit will just keep raining down and we're all just destined to watch the car crash unfold.

MichaelandKirk · 27/02/2025 22:41

And what on earth is the point of Lammy??

MichaelandKirk · 27/02/2025 22:38

Wonder how Margaret Thatcher would have dealt with Trump?

UnderHisEeyore · 27/02/2025 22:33

monsterfish · 27/02/2025 22:18

Trump is a greedy man without a shred of integrity, but he is not entirely stupid. Wondering if he is playing the long game here. He has said he wants to make Greenland a US state, mainly for the mining opportunities. Denmark not happy but part of NATO. Putin & trump become allies, Putin gets Ukraine with US support & trump gets Greenland with Russian support.

As long as they stick together and don't touch China they've got the rest of the world on a platter - the bullies of the playground have teamed up.

PuttingouttheFirewithGasoline · 27/02/2025 22:32

The eu has had years, Obama was the wake up call years and years ago at least 2016 and billions have gone in the eu black hole of corruption.

monsterfish · 27/02/2025 22:18

Trump is a greedy man without a shred of integrity, but he is not entirely stupid. Wondering if he is playing the long game here. He has said he wants to make Greenland a US state, mainly for the mining opportunities. Denmark not happy but part of NATO. Putin & trump become allies, Putin gets Ukraine with US support & trump gets Greenland with Russian support.

Kendodd · 27/02/2025 22:06

Absolutely sickening to watch Stamer sucking up to Trump.
I understand why he has to do this though and feel for him.

Mielikki · 27/02/2025 19:53

zendeveloper · 27/02/2025 19:18

^ this

I think another aspect of the situation is that no one can tell for sure to what level exactly NATO troops are functional or dysfunctional without the US participation or even goodwill. It might be that whilst there technically are non-US planes and warheads and tanks, they are just pieces of metal.

Yep, De Gaulle seems in retrospect to have been something of a clairvoyant.

Mummyratbag · 27/02/2025 19:49

zendeveloper · 27/02/2025 18:57

And what if Putin offers a similar deal for exactly the same resources after he takes Ukraine by force? Where's the US interest then in protecting the investment? It is the Ukrainian government money that will be tied in exploration / mining, the US actually does not invest anything new according to the current agreement on the table - just participates in profits (and is able to reinvest the profits too, but with new rare earth exploration and mining we're talking at least a decade until profits emerge).

I don't know! It's all so off the wall.. I grew up thinking that the Russians would nuke us and that the US were the good guys (with NATO) - the older I got the more I realised the latter was not necessarily true, but I never imagined this, so it's hard to see how it could play out. I'm terrified for our kids. Russia hasn't been able to take Ukraine, but I fear them being emboldened and regrouping.

MrsPernicious · 27/02/2025 19:34

Suddenly Macron's call for a European army seems quite sensible.
Plus even more doubt is cast about interference in the Brexit vote.

20 years ago middle class Russians were really busy sending their children to UK schools because we were all European.

zendeveloper · 27/02/2025 19:18

Mielikki · 27/02/2025 19:08

Because the European militaries (with the exception of the French) have for the last 60 years built their entire doctrine on acting in concert with the US. In particular heavy lift logistics and battlefield intelligence (ie spy satellites and planes) have been the US’s responsibility. This is the entire basis of NATO - everyone has a specialist area and is reliant on other nations for other functions. The only nations in NATO with a truly independent military are the US obviously and, to a lesser extend, France and Sweden.

Rebuilding a truly independent military and filling in the gaps that were previously filled by the US will take years and cost billions.

^ this

I think another aspect of the situation is that no one can tell for sure to what level exactly NATO troops are functional or dysfunctional without the US participation or even goodwill. It might be that whilst there technically are non-US planes and warheads and tanks, they are just pieces of metal.

Mielikki · 27/02/2025 19:08

EasternStandard · 27/02/2025 15:07

I don't get why we're trusting this either

Why can't Europe provide its own security guarantee rather than rely on Trump. He might say yes and be no

Because the European militaries (with the exception of the French) have for the last 60 years built their entire doctrine on acting in concert with the US. In particular heavy lift logistics and battlefield intelligence (ie spy satellites and planes) have been the US’s responsibility. This is the entire basis of NATO - everyone has a specialist area and is reliant on other nations for other functions. The only nations in NATO with a truly independent military are the US obviously and, to a lesser extend, France and Sweden.

Rebuilding a truly independent military and filling in the gaps that were previously filled by the US will take years and cost billions.

zendeveloper · 27/02/2025 18:57

Mummyratbag · 27/02/2025 14:25

I find the whole thing horrendous, worrying and distasteful. Trump has a bloody nerve. The only tiny glimmer of positive I can see is if the US invest heavily in Ukraine to extract minerals there is a level of security in that they won't want their mines/extraction plants taken over by Russia? But then they have been exploited by the US instead. It's all very depressing.

And what if Putin offers a similar deal for exactly the same resources after he takes Ukraine by force? Where's the US interest then in protecting the investment? It is the Ukrainian government money that will be tied in exploration / mining, the US actually does not invest anything new according to the current agreement on the table - just participates in profits (and is able to reinvest the profits too, but with new rare earth exploration and mining we're talking at least a decade until profits emerge).

unsync · 27/02/2025 18:41

Kendodd · 27/02/2025 17:55

What could Putin possibly have on Trump that would make any difference though? This is a man who has been found by a court in the US to have raped someone. We all watched Jan 6th unfold. He's boasted about grabbing women 'by the pussy'. He refused to release his tax return. Has described himself as 'smart' for not paying taxes.

We saw it all.
It made no difference.

Well there are things that normal people wouldn't even contemplate doing that might give pause to even the most staunch Trump supporters.

It is true that his behaviour thus far is flagrant and he has got away with it. However, if you accept that men who commit crimes of a sexual nature do escalate, then I'll leave you to think about what kind of material they may have that he might not want made public.

IdaGlossop · 27/02/2025 18:29

There's not much diversity in the pics coming out of the Oval Office. All male. All over 50. All on blue or black suits, shirts and ties. Lammy the lone black person. There they all are, making big boy decisions and going about their work of carving up the planet. We're going backwards.

UnderHisEeyore · 27/02/2025 18:22

OneLemonDog · 27/02/2025 18:19

It's true. Even if the rumored "pee tape" were real, and Russia released it, all it would cause is an increased uptake in water sports by Republican voters.

-If- it is real, Trump probably feared it's release at one time. He doesn't need to anymore.

Yeah it would only earn him kudos among the supporters. Not as if the rest of us ever doubted they existed anyway.

They are in cahoots. It's like paying protection money to the same people who would beat you up if you didn't.