Tipping in America

America is a country with free speech, therefore if they want better working rights, they are freely able to campaign for such things, just like we have over the years

And this is precisely why I don't feel it's my place to insert myself into other folks' employment grumbles, @naunet - basically because I respect them enough to to deal with them themselves and resist swooping in to "mend" matters which are frankly none of my business

Like you I'll happily tip in the usual places but ddon't expect to be made a mug of, and that includes the creeping practice of asking whether the customer wants to "round up to such and such" even in places where it wasn't previously expected

America is a country with free speech, therefore if they want better working rights, they are freely able to campaigne for such things, just like we have over the years.

I tip in restaurants and bars, but like hell, would I be tipping the hotel, $5+ a day.

I've been following this topic, tipping in the USA (late last year and earlier this year), and there have been some interesting developments. I'll try to make a timeline:

"The expansion of tipping expectations has contributed to confusion and “tip fatigue,” where customers feel pressured and frustrated when asked for tips in nontraditional places." (source)

The guest at certain (luxury) hotels were “given a slip of paper pushing tipping along with their key when they checked in.” (source)

And finally, "people are tipping less at restaurants than they have in at least six years" (source)

So, basically, people felt more and more pressured to tip, in more places and ways than before, and it backfired, dragging the tipping to the six-year minimum.

And getting rid of tips wouldn't affect affordability because the price of the items would go up. the cognitive bias of preferring to pay service separately is annoying and silly, but the total cost is not going to change.

I don't think anybody is under the illusion that the prices wouldn't go up, if they take account of proper guaranteed wages for the staff.

It's just the honesty and transparency of having an actual total all-in price, rather than an artificially low menu price which is significantly lower than the whole price that you're expected to pay.

The servers' base salary is virtually nothing, like $2 per hour, and the tips are their salary

Not in NY it's not, @ThisFluentBiscuit; from memory wait staffs' minimum wage there is now about $16 if you include the "tip credit" the employer has to make up, and such staff are certainly not exempt from this

I wouldn't personally, @User74893677, but if you're determined to economise you'd probably get away with not leaving a housekeeping tip on your last day - after all you'll never see them again

I really wouldn't try it in any restaurants you visit though, and you can soak up some of the pain by using places a couple of blocks off the main areas, where you'll get a much better deal and happily won't hear "Oh everyone tips 40% here" either

Overall just remember that NY eats both time and money, but have a fantastic time - it's an amazing place and full of the most wonderful people

Was in NYC late last year. Most people would just leave a tip for house keeping at the end of their stay, so them not having anything each day is not going to effect your service. My hotel actually had a QR code to pay a tip online if we wanted to rather than leave cash. We did not tip anyone for them storing our cases for a few hours, didn't even occur to me!

Tipping waiters for table service you should definitely do. We did 20% on all.

With tipping and the 8%ish tax it is annoying that you don't actually know the cost of anything before you order it/buy it but at least you get around about idea.

Am in Netherlands on a long weekend and not once have I had 'any' service charge on a bill in a bar, cafe or restaurant.

Exactly this.
On tiktok where people all around the world are fighting for their lives in the comments section suggesting perhaps servers could change to another minimum wage job with guaranteed wages and you will see them disagreeing vehemently as they should. They know that their flatmates working in Target are poorer overall because they don't come home with 100's of dollars worth of tips.
I don't think it's all swings and roundabouts either.

The part John didn't mention is something I think I did. The servers who really make a lot on tips in high end restaurants, like thousands a month, are part of what drive the system. There are New York waiters who have worked for decades and put their kids through university on tips. John is correct that it won't die completely. We haven't seen much cutback on tipping in those states where the tip wage was abolished.

I don't see how restaurants could match what the high end servers are making in tips. Danny Meyer (well known restauranteur) abolished tipping pre-COVID. He had to bring it back because he couldn't hire wait staff. This isn't true for, say, a diner waitress, who might well make more money on an hourly wage.

And getting rid of tips wouldn't affect affordability because the price of the items would go up. the cognitive bias of preferring to pay service separately is annoying and silly, but the total cost is not going to change.

It's not just about actually paying the money, though; it's about knowing what everybody's expectations are.

You might give a solid 25% tip, very happy with the service - but then somebody like the server on the video that's been doing the rounds on TwiX who 'educates' visitors to the USA about how to tip, basing it on 30% or so supposedly being the accepted norm, will be horribly insulted and offended.

Yes, you can err on the side of caution and give, say, 50% if you really want to - as surely nobody could fail to be delighted with that; but then, if enough people do that for enough time, it ups the ante and, before long, 40% would be seen as an utter insult!

I accept that it's part of the US culture, but personally speaking, I much prefer to know the expected price for a transaction. I don't mind at all if it costs just as much as it would cost for the total of the menu price + tip; but it just makes so much more sense to have an all-in price, so you know what the actual cost is before deciding whether to eat there or not.

As someone that spends a lot of time in the US, I think you just have to factor in the cost of tipping into your spending money and not think about it after that.

John Oliver spelt it out better than anyone had before. Being that he's a Brit helped too because even the most liberal left wing American isn't as left wing as me not their fault or failing but they are just different and I can't deal with the argument that you have to be rich rich just to eat at a restaurant.

Bumping this thread to mention that this week's John Oliver main segment was tipping. The beginning is all TikToks of Americans screaming about tip screens, so rest assured, Americans are as annoyed about being asked for tips for self service and takeaway as much as tourists! The rest is about actual tips in restaurants and a few other places where it makes a difference.

one point John didn't mention: while most states haven't abolished tip wage, because states can set minimums higher than federal, that doesn't mean the tip wage in every state is $2.13. So in NYC for example, the tipped wage is $13.35 vs the general minimum of $16.50.

Wow, Chupa Chups have been around for a while, but I never knew they were aimed at adults!

Then again, they're so unnecessarily hard to open that children often can't do it without adult assistance anyway!

I never bought them! If i recall they were usally Chupa Chups so were wrapped in plastic.

Chupa Chups were a big thing in club culture for a while. It may or may not have been a drugs thing. I couldn't possibly comment.

Lollies?!?! Bog-lollipops that have been sitting in a lavatory all day/week/month?!?! Presumably also hanging around much longer than similar ones in a corner shop would, as who would actually be buying them?!

Do they approach you like the Child Catcher, screaming "Lollipops!!!" whilst waving them in your face?

Who ever thought that could possibly be a good idea?

It just makes me think of the episode of The IT Crowd, where they go to the theatre, and Moss & Roy go for a wee and find they can't actually 'go' because of the onlooking 'toilet guy'!

It must be such a weird old role, being a jobbie bobby and spending your entire working day, every day, in a toilet.

Realised that too but it's this chart -
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

and Pennsylvania - where I lived then - is still at $2.63/hour paid. It was around the same when I was there. Most states are better though!

Most states have a higher minimum wage than the federal minimum wage.

https://www.ncsl.org/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wages

"In the United States, the federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13 per hour. This is combined with tips to reach the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour."

When I waitressed in the states TWENTY-FIVE years ago it was about the same amount. I would also get taxed on my presumed tips - so a percentage of my sales. So a non-tipping customer would cost me money.

The worst were those freelance people you got in club toilets in London (and other cities) who would offer you hand wash and a paper towel and expect a tip. They also had a manky selection of deoderant, lollies, perfumes and makeup on offer.

The 'bathroom attendant' is like a weird Soviet-style take on full employment but in luxurious, western surroundings. So for example in Moscow there were people that sit in cubicles at the bottom of escalators whose job it was to ensure you're on the right side.

(I just want to be able to go to the loo in peace, to be honest.)

To be fair lavatory attendants are a thing in some European countries as well. I was caught off guard when I used loos at a Berlin beer hall as I had left my purse downstairs.

Oooh, I bet you were very tempted to find her a little extra of something to leave in her dish

I agree; but unless you're a regular, you only usually tip after you've received the service.

Plus it seems like it's not appreciated as an attempt to buy better service; it's fully expected as the norm, regardless of how good the service was.

I'm reminded of the old joke about the filthy, smelly tramp who went to a barber's. They did the bare minimum for him, not trying to hide their disgust and contempt, as quickly as they could to get him out of the place, out of a sense of duty. It turned out that he was actually an eccentric millionaire and he quietly slipped them a £10,000 tip and walked out immediately, before they saw the tip.

He went in again two months later and the staff were all over him like flies to a turd, pampering and buttering him up, giving him the best possible service with absolutely nothing too much effort for them. He tipped them a penny.

The staff were extremely upset and asked if he may have made a mistake? He replied "Not at all; last time's tip was for today's service and today's tip was for last time's service!"