To be horrible to my four year old?

Shouting will induce a fear response - flight, fight or freeze - but that doesn't mean it's an effective strategy.

Stay calm, be firm about expectations and use distraction - it works wonders! My youngest would often be grouchy on being collected from school - well beyond the age of 4. I took snacks but they often weren't enough to help them regulate, and they would start moaning about the walk home or whatever. I developed the habit of brightly asking questions about their day or commenting on what we were passing until something engaged their interest and they started chatting away. I occasionally used the same tactic until well into their teens!

Sounds exactly like our DD! Shes 4.5 and apparently a dream at school blah blah. Non stop arguing at home! Doesnt really bother me buts drives DW round the twist. Every now and then DW loses it and seems to help for a day or two but no change in the long run. We try and stay cool!

I feel your pain. It is properly draining and totally ridiculous. Just hope this is a quick phase and not a long phase. Good luck!

That's not true. I remember the times my mum lost it with me very vividly. Of course I remember the love as well, but probably my strongest memories are the negative ones.

Generally we recall our negative experiences more than we do positive ones - it's called negativity bias.

My mother was (and still is) a wonderful mother, and while my overriding memories are of love, she has a sharp tongue and there is no denying that memories of those times (a tiny minority) are also there. Of course, I understand that no-one is perfect and this is just a human flaw, but those times have left an indelible mark and did some damage.

’why she’s so triggered’ is because back talk to every single thing you say for a whole year is inherently frustrating!

So many saintly parents on here! I’ll get flamed for saying this but I’m going to anyway;

OP, my 3 year old is exactly like this and very occasionally, from time to time, I have done just as you have and lost my shit with him. I have another child (18 months old), work full time in a stressful job and my husband works away for stretches of time and we have no, and I mean literally zero, support from family. It’s hard when you have a child of this nature. It’s developmentally normal but at the end of the day, you are a human being and who has their own thoughts, feelings and capacity to cope with things.

Gentle parenting techniques do not work with my son, plain and simple. He will push and push, ignore any kind of redirection etc. The only thing that works is time outs, removing him from the situation.

Every child is different and I can promise you, it’s very easy to say what other parents should and shouldn’t do when you don’t have a child who whinges, whines and wants to argue with you constantly. We are parents, people with our own emotions, feelings and capacities to cope, not bloody superhumans who are capable of constantly controlling their emotions when things get too much.

OP, I hear you, it’s tough 🫂

If he is 4, is he starting school in September?

One thing we noticed with DD and her friends is those last few terms at nursery are unbearable (especially if they are amongst the eldest) as they are bored and frustrated.

Not sure I have a solution, but it did improve when they started school (with no exceptions). Hang on in there.

He was quiet because he was shocked. Once he stops being shocked he will just behave exacrly as you do. Maybe you need to have stronger boundaries but if you've already got over how you spoke to your child you probably haven't been a complete pushover anyway.

If only the NHS had easy access to child psychologists. No, this is not normal behaviour. But I don't know what to suggest apart from seeing a paediatric behavioural psychologist. Maybe privately is an option?

I think i would say please don't be rude, everytime he argues back, then carry on doing what your doing and no more discussion about it. If he screams I want ice cream. Just say, you can have some if you ask nicely. Get your DH to model this if needs be and you give the ice cream when anyone asks nicely. The answering back is relentless and draining. By having set phrases you feel like you have a coping mechanism and he knows the response he will get evetytime he is rude. If he responds positively, just say how interesting, good question etc to reinforce the positive stuff.

Just out of interest does he do this with your DH or just you?

I know this stage - it can go on for years, although not as intensely. They do become little smart arses and it's really frustrating, however your reaction was beyond 'we all lose it once in a while'.

Losing it would be snapping something along the lines of 'for God's sake, will you stop arguing with everything I say?' or 'I'm getting sick of this behaviour'. The things you said are extremely damaging and downright nasty. Things might be back to normal, but this won't be forgotten completely.

I'd be more inclined to tell him he's being rude when you nit picks and counter it with a sharp 'excuse me'.

I find humour to be the best answer. And also "playing the fool" kids love that.
It diffuses the tension. And we are not talking about things you have to lay the law down about, like hitting etc. He is not t being intentionally difficult..... he is 4.

He’s four. You can’t speak to him like that. If you feel the red mist descending because of his little emperor behaviour you put him in time out (for his sake and your own) until he grows out of it.

The odds are he will.
Kids remember the love, not the odd time their mum lost it with them when they pushed her to the limit.

Were you being endlessly rude and demanding and whingy and your mother told you in a raised, sharp voice to pack it in? Nicely, I suspect if you’ve got NC there was more to it than that.

I think you’re being a bit too angsty. He won’t be scarred and your relationship won’t be irrevocably damaged because you shouted at him once. If he’s whinging on and being miserable then you’re right, kids won’t want to be his friend.

Sometimes kids need a sharp word to tell them their behaviour is wrong. They need to be taught that it’s not okay, and you’ve done that and now it’s fine. What’s the issue, really?

Don't be horrible. An outburst in frustration is understandable.

Play him at his own game. Tell him It's opposite day. Trust me this will make you see it for what it is and make you laugh...and have fun.

My 4yo is going through a very similar stage and whilst I don’t judge you for your reaction and I’m sure you feel terrible please try to remember that your child will encounter enough bullies in this world, don’t be the first one.

He's four. You need to figure out why you're being so triggered.

I do think a lot of this hangs on exactly what was said if it was "I hate spending time with you when you just argue with me constantly" rather than just "I hate spending time with you" that makes a very big difference.

If this were me I'd have a "don't talk back / argue with grown ups / parents / mummy" (as you see fit) rule. If he breaks the rule then he gets whatever punishment rule breaking gets in your house. In my house I'd say you don't argue back to mummy. If he did, I'd give him a warning. If he did it again, he'd go in time out.

Things like rudeness over ice cream get one single chance. If he says he doesn't want one, he doesn't get one. He will scream and cry, but probably won't do it again.

“So - I lost it a few days ago and I’m not proud of it but I screamed my head off at him, told him he was making me miserable and that I hated spending time with him, no one would want to be his friend”

He’ll remember that and it will play over and over in his mind every time he has a normal “falling out” with a classmate or friend in school.

Have name changed for this. You sound like my mother. She behaved like you and said something similar to me when I was 3. It's never left me in fact it's a vivid scene in my head that rears it's ugly head every so often. I've since gone no-contact with her. Anyone downplaying your behaviour as frustration or discipline and making excuses needs to stop and think again. It's does damage.

It worked once. You snapped. The element of surprise worked in your favour. Don't do it again. The damage will show up later. You'll also push him away and he won't come back.

My mother was happy to get into it and really verbally lash me in addition to screaming at me from when I was 3 and up. I was treated as an equal, I suppose, but she never tried to rise above. It worked on the spot but it never really solved anything long term and I internalised- and remembered or certainly was affected by - a lot of what was said. I am me, my problems are my own but she didn't help.

I can't offer you a solution, I'm not saying you can't ever get cross and have a moment but I don't think a deliberately harsh tone will work long term.

No I did actually… what it’s coming down to is whether I believe what she initially said she said or if I believe what she later changed it to after backlash.