To wonder what will happen about the government's 'free' breakfast club proposal?!

Most teachers at pur school already come in from 7:10-7:30, that time is needed to get things done in the classroom. Any earlier and it would become ridiculous.

Then there's the setting up beforehand (and it wouldn't just be a small group anymore) and the clearing away/washing up. I'm sure TAs can't be spared from the classroom at 8.45am so they can finish clearing up breakfast club, they'll be expected to be in class as usual.

So teachers will have to come in earlier and work a longer day to help with parents work choices

My DD’s first school has over 500 kids. Breakfast club does not exist, paid for wraparound does. This is full and has limited spaces. It is used by parents who work and need the additional child care. It’s £5 an hour. There is a waiting list. My DD has breakfast at home before going to wraparound.

At her school if a free breakfast club was offered it would either start later to save on staffing costs, therefore being no use to working parents anymore or be so in demand that the school couldn’t possibly run it as worse case is that 500 kids all turn up for it and need supervision!

I think the sentiment behind it is well meaning but agree that many schools already offer this and use PP funding to do so if they have high deprivation. Secondary school is different as the same supervision isn’t needed.

My DD’s school in a highly middle class area with many working and SAHP does not need a free breakfast club. Any family who needs to can speak to the school about help with the cost of wraparound if their child qualifies for PP funding. Why ‘fix’ something that at this school doesn’t need fixing?

I’m a labour voter by the way!

The breakfast club idea is very poorly thought out, and another typical "policy" brought in because the government thinks it ticks certain boxes. What they should put funding into the lunches already in place.

Currently, the government covers £2.53 per child for UFSMs, which is supposed to cover food, staff, and running of a kitchen costs. If the provider charges more than £2.53 then the shortfall has to come from the school budget, which is just not possible. With food and staffing costs going up and up, it's a no-win.

I used to work for a large non-profit school meals provider who are closing their doors within the next year. It just got worse with food prices going up, so the meal price either had to go up or portions got smaller. Staff were cut to the bone, putting them often in quite dangerous positions. You couldn't even accuse them of being greedy with profit because they were non-profit, but the government just chooses to focus on gimmicks such a breakfast clubs instead of properly funding the meals they already provide.

You are most welcome to come and work out the ops in our school.

We've signed up for the pilot to see if we can get the logistics to work.

The majority of our TAs simply cannot get into school for our 8.25 breakfast club start due to their own childcare commitments/bus timetables/preexisting jobs. The tiny bit of extra money isn't worth rearranging their lives for.

Our TAs do lunch cover, so no pool of MDSAs to call on.

Our cleaning is done by an external company, so no pool to call on.

Our site team already start work at 7.30am/8am.

What would be your solution?

@Redlocks30 re: the £24k claim.

I think that poster has misinterpreted the numbers (or maybe Labour / the DfE have been deliberately obtuse...)

Start- up costs are a generous £1,599:

"Guidance sent to schools taking part in the pilots say they will receive a £500 set-up payment to cover equipment and materials as well as £1,099 for “start-up staffing costs” to cover the summer term. A payment will then be made in arrears, based on the number of pupils taking part."

Then:

"The DfE added that an average primary school with a 50% take-up would receive about £23,000 for a full year for an early adopter breakfast club."

But the £23k is just the 60p per day multiplied by an average number of children attending.

190 school days at 60p per child per day means that £23k works out at around 200 children.

So yes, it is very much the case that schools will receive funding of 60p per child per day, and that is it.

Ah yeah not their job to do what is actually now a job that falls in part to teachers, and will affect them in one way or another. Can tell you're nothing to do with education with the statement that it'll not been a difficult roll out operationally.

You are wrong. Yes they are.

No they are literally not. You understand directed hours, and the headaches Headteachers have when directing teachers?

That's why existing support staff cover these.

As PP said, noone needs to understand how this is managed or budgeted. That's not their job. Free breakfast clubs really not a difficult roll-out for most schools, from an operational pov

Can tell you have never worked in a school. So many initiatives or schemes are promised without any actual logistical guidance or enough financial support. Invariably it's up to teachers and the few admin staff to work stuff out, it always funny enough includes extra work for no extra pay. Of course teachers want to know what the expectations are going to be in terms of their time, what other resources will have to be cut to balance the books. And you've highlighted the issue; decisions and commands are given by people who don't do the job, and those that actually do it are told to crack on and sort it, often with fuck all notice.

Because quite often teachers are expected to take on these new tasks unpaid.

Edited for typo.

I take it the teachers posting aren’t part of the 750 schools in the pilot?

it’s quite unique I think, that teachers always seem to think they need to know how anything in a school is going to work. In any other company they would be operational staff and would simply wait to be told. It’s a really weird set up to think you have to know (well in advance) when your position has no responsibility for implementing things.

I don’t notice it in other jobs

This is a terrible idea. We have a massive obesity issue in children yet we're feeding them additiinal food a good majority wouldn't need? Especially processed white bread.

Most parents actually bother to parent their children and ensure they have a balanced breakfast before they attend school. Even parents on the breadline and struggling should be able to do this as a minimum. I swear we're moving to a time where parents expect schools and other people to pick up the slack they're too lazy to do themselves.

Where do private providers come into this? Where I live, the breakfast and after-school clubs are usually run by private companies on the school site. They are reasonably priced for parents on a decent wage who just need to get to work, but they're not really aimed at providing breakfast for kids in poverty. Do the government proposals see a role for these companies (e.g. subsidise them for taking poor pupils), or is it purely about getting school staff to dish out toast?

Absolutely. Can that many parents really not be trusted to actually feed their child that they have to hand out bagels? Wtf

They are also paying approximately £24,000 lump sum per school on top of the 60p per child

That's terrible.

I hope your DD and her colleagues all refuse.

Come on now, is 30 minutes in the morning going to mean they can work above min wage jobs all of a sudden?

If breakfast club is only 30 mins, it is unlikely to find someone to do a job for 30 mins 5 days a week unless they are someone who is already a member of staff.
We struggle to appoint mid day lunch assistants as that is only 1 hour 30 mins, so unless there are staff willing to take on the breakfast club role then I think it would be difficult to recruit specifically for that role.

It still costs money however it is done, and seeing as where I am TAs are all being cut, I don't see who is going to run this.

I suppose we are all in our own bubbles. Staffing breakfast club has been an ongoing battle at the two schools ive been involved in breakfast club in and no one did it for free.