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Original poster

To wonder what will happen about the government's 'free' breakfast club proposal?!

264 replies

Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 13:30

They have been talking a lot today about saving families £450 a year, but I just can't see how this is going to work?

They are paying 60p per child per day, which might pay for a Weetabix and a bit of toast, but doesn't take into account the staffing (and any energy costs) that this will require!

We already have a small school with a successful breakfast club running, with smallish numbers but all can sit down and eat together. Parents pay a reasonable amount for it and this pays for 1/2 members of staff, depending on numbers. If this was opened up to all parents as a free option, we simply wouldn't have enough space to put everyone in the hall-it would be mayhem.

The school budget doesn't have any spare cash in it for TA staffing costs (normally paid for by parents paying) so where are schools expected to find this money from?

OP posts:
Original poster
Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 14:26

Christ, we all like a good moan don’t we??? Rather than saying - here’s something that’s fairly easy to implement

But that's what people are saying; it's not 'easy to implement' if you haven't got enough money to pay for the staffing or a room big enough for large numbers of children to sit and eat in. If schools don't pay support staff from 8am already because of lack of funds, that is a big cost that they would have to now find. Or if they pay support staff out of the £4.50 per child they charge parents for breakfast club which they won't now be getting, that doesn't work either.
You can't pay staff wages out of thin air.

OP posts:
ParrotParty · 23/02/2025 14:26

rainylake · 23/02/2025 13:38

Well at our school there used to be a breakfast club but they recently said that the red tape involved with providing food under government rules was too much and would require extra staff, so now no food is allowed to be served, it is just a holding pen for children whose parents need to be in work early. So I am not optimistic about more breakfasts materialising.

What red tape is there about providing a piece of toast and fruit? They already give fruit out at snack time

Farellyo · 23/02/2025 14:25

Drylogsonly · 23/02/2025 14:20

Christ, we all like a good moan don’t we??? Rather than saying - here’s something that’s fairly easy to implement that will benefit parents, kids, and teachers…
We talk about instilling growth mindsets in our school children and yet seem unable to cover the basics ourselves.

In what way will it benefit teachers? They're the ones who will be forced to doing additional hours on top of the unpaid hours they already do in staffing it. It's an ill thought out policy which will be an absolutely nightmare for schools who are already under immense strain with shoestring budgets and cut backs on staffing. Also in what way is it easy to implement? Do you think its as simple as just swinging the doors open earlier and food magically appearing?

My fear is that the parents who already pay for wraparound care in breakfast club (ours is from 7.30-9) will be asked to pay more to subsidize the "free" half hour breakfast club for everyone else under the new scheme.

Probably.

Kittygolightlyy · 23/02/2025 14:23

Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 14:22

I know many teachers - most are in school by 8am or well before.

Yep, lots get in at 7.30, to photocopy, set up their classrooms, plan, do displays, mark work and assess. They won't be getting in early to work more hours serving kids cereal and supervising them in the hall.

Yes. And in bigger schools, what will it be breakfast shifts? How long will it take? Who’ll do it? Etc etc etc. 🙄🙄

Original poster
Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 14:22

I know many teachers - most are in school by 8am or well before.

Yep, lots get in at 7.30, to photocopy, set up their classrooms, plan, do displays, mark work and assess. They won't be getting in early to work more hours serving kids cereal and supervising them in the hall.

OP posts:
Kittygolightlyy · 23/02/2025 14:22

Drylogsonly · 23/02/2025 14:18

Or,
actually, it can be managed - like in our city schools- and schools benefit from better behaviour from kids who aren’t coming into school late and hungry?

Show quote history

It’s a great idea to feed kids who haven’t been fed. Another ideological win. Obviously it’s amazing.

Practicalities? Cost? Logistics?

They’ve not thought about or analysed any of it. No different to their usual mo.

Drylogsonly · 23/02/2025 14:20

Christ, we all like a good moan don’t we??? Rather than saying - here’s something that’s fairly easy to implement that will benefit parents, kids, and teachers…
We talk about instilling growth mindsets in our school children and yet seem unable to cover the basics ourselves.

MacieJayne · 23/02/2025 14:19

1SillySossij · 23/02/2025 14:01

My dd teaches in a small school with only 3 classroom teachers. There's no money for TAs to be paid to do it, so the SLT have ordered that the teachers have to do it on a "voluntary" basis once or twice a week. No one has agreed to do it yet. They are all massively over on directed time and noone wants be the only adult on site.

I don't think there can be only one staff member on-site, given safeguarding.

The WRAC in my school always had two, even when there were only one or children, I, as the headteacher had to work in the same room.

My governors decided that the implications on my time (having to be in school 7.30 until 18.00 everyday) were too much and accepted the loss that the WRAC made, given that the aim at the time was to encourage more families to the school.

Original poster
Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 14:19

My fear is that the parents who already pay for wraparound care in breakfast club (ours is from 7.30-9) will be asked to pay more to subsidize the "free" half hour breakfast club for everyone else under the new scheme.

That's one possibility-like the nurseries have been forced to do.

Or staff redundancies.

Or schools stop their breakfast club offer altogether if they can prove it will be running at a loss. Many school budgets are already stuffed so can't plan for something big like this that will take money they don't have from them.

OP posts:
Drylogsonly · 23/02/2025 14:18

Kittygolightlyy · 23/02/2025 14:16

Exactly. In the adverts it’s basically says ‘ask your school’. Ffs - they are betraying teachers and schools again.

Show quote history

Or,
actually, it can be managed - like in our city schools- and schools benefit from better behaviour from kids who aren’t coming into school late and hungry?

Kittygolightlyy · 23/02/2025 14:16

AnneLovesGilbert · 23/02/2025 13:38

BP was on the radio this morning talking about it. When asked how the staffing was being funded she said it was up to schools to find the money and work it out.

Exactly. In the adverts it’s basically says ‘ask your school’. Ffs - they are betraying teachers and schools again.

Drylogsonly · 23/02/2025 14:16

I know many teachers - most are in school by 8am or well before.
it’s not like teachers rock in at 8.55am and down tools at 3.30pm… like most of us they work longer days…

MegTheForgetfulCat · 23/02/2025 14:15

Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 13:49

This is starting to sound rather like the

Free NHS dental care (that you can only access if you can find one of the few remaining NHS dentists)

'Free' 15/30 hours childcare with a provider that actually accepts people wanting those hours.

If schools are forced to offer 'Free' breakfast club places to every child, then it'll probably lead to staff redundancies to pay for it.

My fear is that the parents who already pay for wraparound care in breakfast club (ours is from 7.30-9) will be asked to pay more to subsidize the "free" half hour breakfast club for everyone else under the new scheme.
I haven't read into the new trial and so some of these questions may have been answered, but how on earth is this supposed to work - can children just be dropped off ad hoc or do they need to book? If the former then how do they know how much toast, milk etc to order and how many staff need to be there? And if there is a booking system, will there be consequences if they don't show up (presumably not if this is a universal service)? Or is the government/other parents basically going to be subsidizing an option for them to show up if they feel like it, with food then inevitably going to waste if the numbers fluctuate a lot?

Original poster
Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 14:14

The cost to school is next to nothing.

Our TAs (the few we have) are only contracted when the children are in, so to pay them from 8/8.15 would cost money. I suspect you have bigger rooms in a secondary and would need a lower ratio of adults to staff a breakfast club than we would in EYFS/KS1 as well.

I'm not being negative but this would incur staffing costs that we don't currently have.

OP posts:
Drylogsonly · 23/02/2025 14:14

Our city schools all open at 8am and offer free breakfast - cereal, toast nowt fancy.
The canteen staff are already there prepping for lunchtime and teachers/ TAs generally supervise just as they do with lunchtime/ breaks.
It’s already happening all over the U.K.

AnotherDayAnotherIdea · 23/02/2025 14:13

Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 13:57

Cost to school is next-to-nothing

Those members of staff still need their wages to be paid; that's not 'nothing'.

I presume the schools in areas of high socio-economic deprivation are using their PP funding to pay for free breakfast club. Schools (especially small schools) that don't have such numbers on PP don't have the same wriggle room in their budget (or room in their school).

Teachers don't get overtime sadly. They will probably just draw up a rota in the same way as they staff detention or prep sessions.

LittleHangleton · 23/02/2025 14:10

Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 13:57

Cost to school is next-to-nothing

Those members of staff still need their wages to be paid; that's not 'nothing'.

I presume the schools in areas of high socio-economic deprivation are using their PP funding to pay for free breakfast club. Schools (especially small schools) that don't have such numbers on PP don't have the same wriggle room in their budget (or room in their school).

35% PP, not incredibly large proportion. But we are a secondary school, so bigger than primaries.

The TAs hours haven't changed. They either stay until 4pm and staff the daily homework club, or start at 8am and staff the breakfast clubs. They're already contracted for those hours and have been for many years, it's nothing extra.

The cost to school is next to nothing. And yes, the marginal cost does come from the PP budget. But its nothing compared to, say, the amount we spend giving away free uniform to PP students in need.

JandamiHash · 23/02/2025 14:07

I read something this morning that said 170 schools have been picked to test the roll out so if you haven’t heard I’m guessing your school hasn’t been picked

Another76543 · 23/02/2025 14:02

AnneLovesGilbert · 23/02/2025 13:38

BP was on the radio this morning talking about it. When asked how the staffing was being funded she said it was up to schools to find the money and work it out.

So it's not properly funded or thought through? Schools are expected to find staff prepared to work for free or to just use that unallocated extra funding they have splashing around........

1SillySossij · 23/02/2025 14:01

My dd teaches in a small school with only 3 classroom teachers. There's no money for TAs to be paid to do it, so the SLT have ordered that the teachers have to do it on a "voluntary" basis once or twice a week. No one has agreed to do it yet. They are all massively over on directed time and noone wants be the only adult on site.

Another76543 · 23/02/2025 14:00

Children are at school for 190 days a year. Where is the £450 per year saving figure coming from? That's £2.36 per day. Most schools are giving/planning to give simple breakfasts such as pieces of bagel/cereal/slice of toast? Even with multiple children, a slice of toast would not cost parents that much.

I cannot fathom a policy which is giving free food to very wealthy families. It doesn't seem a sensible use of resources.

DontCallMeKidDontCallMeBaby · 23/02/2025 13:59

Our primary school has provided a free breakfast club for years (fairly mixed area. But 52% pupil premium, so a lot of deprivation). Another couple of schools in the area do the same. So I think that while a lot of school may struggle, it’s going to be an improvement to the finances of a fair few as well.

Original poster
Redlocks30 · 23/02/2025 13:57

Cost to school is next-to-nothing

Those members of staff still need their wages to be paid; that's not 'nothing'.

I presume the schools in areas of high socio-economic deprivation are using their PP funding to pay for free breakfast club. Schools (especially small schools) that don't have such numbers on PP don't have the same wriggle room in their budget (or room in their school).

OP posts:
LittleHangleton · 23/02/2025 13:54

My secondary school offers a free breakfast club. So did a previous secondary I worked at. Both deprived areas, fairly routine around me.

Staffing wise, we have a group of TAs who are offered flex-time and many happy to work 8-3.30 instead of 8.30-4. Breakfast club runs 8.00-8.40 (when school starts) and is staffed by at least 2 TAs, as part of their basic hours.

Goods provided are inexpensive - cereals, bread based products, margarine, jam, marmalade, squash, hot chocolate, milk. Most of that is provided free from the local supermarket - for example they save us bread based stuff from the 'use by today' shelves.

One member if staff has the job of collecting thr morning's shopping from the supermarket on the way in. That's really the only arduous task.

Cost to school is next-to-nothing. It's offered free to all, but get between 5-10% of students coming.