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To not understand why Katharine Birbalsingh is so controversial

341 replies

TemporaryPosition · 22/02/2025 12:34

Just that. Am I being unreasonable in thinking the results she achieves at her school and start in life her students get which they likely otherwise wouldn't - is something to be celebrated and perhaps we should look to what's going wrong in schools which face the the same socioeconomic challenges but get far poorer results. Surely I'm not being unreasonable to wonder this.

OP posts:
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noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 13:34

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 13:18

Which "anti family" policies?

I think the timings of staff meetings would make it difficult for anyone with childcare responsibilities to work there.

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:32

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 13:03

One of the reasons is that girls outperform boys at every GCSE apart from maths and physics. When it comes to picking A-level options, girls have more choice as a result. Boys will be more likely to be funnelled into picking maths because that's their 'best subject'.

Thanks, @noblegiraffe

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:29

Continued

Grade 8+ at Chemistry: 65%
Grade (8-8)+ at Double Science: 44%

Grade 8+ at Physics: 63%
Grade (8-8)+ at Double Science 46%

These increases are huge. Michaela is not following proven best practice in science teaching

ByGraceAlone · 23/02/2025 13:23

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:09

There is a review in The Guardian from one of the former archbishops on one of Peterson's books. (If you aren't aware CofE clergy people study theology.)

Let's just say Peterson didn't do sufficient research on what he was writing about. This seems to be a general complaint about his academic work.

Jordan Peterson is an exceptionally brilliant professor of psychology, and cultural critic.

He uses jungian theory to analyse biblical texts and culturalstories. You can look at his lectures on YouTube.

Lots of people have found his approaches have led them to change their lives in many positive ways but some people don't seem to like him. Usually not saying why like on this thread.

At least the CofE vicar in the guardian gave a reason I suppose. But I'm not sure one vicar not rating JPs theology is a good evidence of his and Katherine Birbalsings evilness?

Nothing JP has said has led to evil regimes with millions of deaths, so you'd hope he'd be less hated than Marx by educationalists. But apparently not.

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 13:23

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:20

She actually has low expectations for some people especially girls.

She believes girls can't do physics and maths. She also believes that some pupils simply can't achieve due to their backgrounds.

Btw I couldn't send my DD to a school were she is in charge because my DD likes music and maths. This combination isn't rare in my family.

If she believes these things then how does the school consistently achieve highest GCSE grades for a non-selevtive state school in UK? Because presumably approx 50% of those kids achieving do many 7s+ are girls......

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:20

Ddakji · 22/02/2025 18:49

Because she doesn’t fit into the liberal left that dominates education in this country. She came to prominence after speaking as a Tory party conference which gave those liberal lefties a fit of the vapours.

She doesn’t like the culture of low expectations especially for ethnic minorities.

Most people don’t have X so what she posts there is irrelevant to most. Not everything she says is controversial, and what counts as controversial is subjective.

She actually has low expectations for some people especially girls.

She believes girls can't do physics and maths. She also believes that some pupils simply can't achieve due to their backgrounds.

Btw I couldn't send my DD to a school were she is in charge because my DD likes music and maths. This combination isn't rare in my family.

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 13:18

GrammarTeacher · 23/02/2025 12:58

The problem I see is that (and to be fair this is not just a Michaela issue) there seems to be little understanding that different subjects are different.
English isn’t linear in the same way that Maths learning can be and attempts to make it so have cost student numbers at A Level and beyond.
It’s the total regimentation, ideology of the leader, and anti-family policies for staff that really put me off though

Which "anti family" policies?

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:18

Accidentally posted, to be continued

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:17

Hi, everyone -

I must correct myself on the potential Michaela numbers for science A levels. It never occurred to me that Michaela would allow students into science A levels from Double Science, because of the data in my next paragraph. For background, Double Science covers roughly 2/3 the material from each of Biology, Chemistry, Physics. Anecdotally many teachers and schools allow it as an A level prerequisite and of course many pupils succeed.

However, in Progression from GCSE to A Level by M Carroll and T Gill (^ Cambridge Assessment, 16 Jan 2023) we have the following statistics on A level results following Triple Science (3 single science GCSEs ) vs Double Science taken by over 95% of Michaela pupils:
(Table, p10)

Grade A star/A following

Grade 8+ at Biology: 70%
Grade (8-8)+at Double Science: 49%

Grade 8+ at Chemistry:

Reugny · 23/02/2025 13:09

TemporaryPosition · 22/02/2025 12:52

What's wrong with Jordan Peterson

There is a review in The Guardian from one of the former archbishops on one of Peterson's books. (If you aren't aware CofE clergy people study theology.)

Let's just say Peterson didn't do sufficient research on what he was writing about. This seems to be a general complaint about his academic work.

IdaGlossop · 23/02/2025 13:06

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 12:07

Those who say that Michaela gets those amazing results because they select their intake and do fewer GCSEs are being unfair (or perhaps biased). From what I've heard about the teaching (for maths in particular), the curriculum is incredibly well thought-through. The school started from scratch which I think gave them a lot of time to make sure everything was sequenced properly, methods were standardised and followed on from what had been taught before.

The school is also set up to maximise learning time. The routines mean that far less time is lost to fannying around getting to lessons, getting equipment out, endlessly repeating instructions to kids who haven't paid attention etc etc.

I know kids would do better in my school if they had to march in silence to their next lesson instead of hanging around chatting to their mates. An unbelievable amount of learning time is lost due to lateness. However, I also know that we would not be able to implement silent corridors in my school because our parents wouldn't stand for it, they are extremely resistant to anything authoritarian.

The starting from scratch is important from the point of view of the culture of the school, not just the way the teaching of the curriculum is taught. The approach to discipline and expectations of pupils have been in place from day 1, at Michaela and at Mercia in Sheffield so pupils and parents know what they are signing up to. Changing the culture is tough in any organisation. It's interesting that some parents push back when schools change just one thing in a Michaela direction - banning mobile phones, locking the toilets during lesson time.

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 13:03

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:00

PS Obviously I am aware of the statistics. I mean I would be grateful for quality sources on why girls do less FM, @Ddakji

TIA

One of the reasons is that girls outperform boys at every GCSE apart from maths and physics. When it comes to picking A-level options, girls have more choice as a result. Boys will be more likely to be funnelled into picking maths because that's their 'best subject'.

ByGraceAlone · 23/02/2025 13:03

TemporaryPosition · 22/02/2025 22:30

Firstly, what's wrong with being a Marxist? Secondly, Phillipson is not a Marxist.

What's wrong with being a Marxist???

Dear God.

Maybe 90 million deaths as a result of Marxist regimes??

If these are the idiotic views of the teachers who oppose her we've got a lot more to worry about than whether all kids get the option of drama at GCSE.

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 13:00

PS Obviously I am aware of the statistics. I mean I would be grateful for quality sources on why girls do less FM, @Ddakji

TIA

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 12:59

GrammarTeacher · 23/02/2025 12:58

The problem I see is that (and to be fair this is not just a Michaela issue) there seems to be little understanding that different subjects are different.
English isn’t linear in the same way that Maths learning can be and attempts to make it so have cost student numbers at A Level and beyond.
It’s the total regimentation, ideology of the leader, and anti-family policies for staff that really put me off though

Michaela does seem to be run like a cult.

poetryandwine · 23/02/2025 12:58

Ddakji · 22/02/2025 20:33

She was asked a question and gave an honest answer according to her own experience and the research.

Should the question not have been asked? Should she have lied?

I can’t imagine why a 15 year old would be put off doing physics a level because of what she said. I would have thought her own teachers, parents and peers would have more influence.

What research? The well known statistics? I would be grateful for sources

GrammarTeacher · 23/02/2025 12:58

The problem I see is that (and to be fair this is not just a Michaela issue) there seems to be little understanding that different subjects are different.
English isn’t linear in the same way that Maths learning can be and attempts to make it so have cost student numbers at A Level and beyond.
It’s the total regimentation, ideology of the leader, and anti-family policies for staff that really put me off though

noblegiraffe · 23/02/2025 12:07

Those who say that Michaela gets those amazing results because they select their intake and do fewer GCSEs are being unfair (or perhaps biased). From what I've heard about the teaching (for maths in particular), the curriculum is incredibly well thought-through. The school started from scratch which I think gave them a lot of time to make sure everything was sequenced properly, methods were standardised and followed on from what had been taught before.

The school is also set up to maximise learning time. The routines mean that far less time is lost to fannying around getting to lessons, getting equipment out, endlessly repeating instructions to kids who haven't paid attention etc etc.

I know kids would do better in my school if they had to march in silence to their next lesson instead of hanging around chatting to their mates. An unbelievable amount of learning time is lost due to lateness. However, I also know that we would not be able to implement silent corridors in my school because our parents wouldn't stand for it, they are extremely resistant to anything authoritarian.

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 11:47

GrammarTeacher · 23/02/2025 11:46

The system is set up so that a significant number of students won’t get that level. No matter what we do. The exams are not criteria referenced. There will ALWAYS be failing students under the current grading regime. Always.

Yes approx 30%, not 70%!

GrammarTeacher · 23/02/2025 11:46

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 11:44

But what's the point of offering a range of subjects when kids aren't passing the 5-6 core ones eg M, E, Sciences + 1 x MFL etc? Getting good passes in those are what enable kids to progress to the next stage (whatever that might be). The local state secondary around here has an approx 20-30% achieving 5 x grade 5+ GCSEs each year. That means 70% of kids coming out don't have sufficient GCSEs for them to progress but yeh they get offered a wider range of subjects but to what end?

The system is set up so that a significant number of students won’t get that level. No matter what we do. The exams are not criteria referenced. There will ALWAYS be failing students under the current grading regime. Always.

twistyizzy · 23/02/2025 11:44

user1471516498 · 23/02/2025 11:38

I should have clarified, I was talking specifically about the restricted range of subjects.

But what's the point of offering a range of subjects when kids aren't passing the 5-6 core ones eg M, E, Sciences + 1 x MFL etc? Getting good passes in those are what enable kids to progress to the next stage (whatever that might be). The local state secondary around here has an approx 20-30% achieving 5 x grade 5+ GCSEs each year. That means 70% of kids coming out don't have sufficient GCSEs for them to progress but yeh they get offered a wider range of subjects but to what end?

user1471516498 · 23/02/2025 11:38

twistyizzy · 22/02/2025 20:25

Obviously because 1 size fits all doesn't work however I live in a rural area and our choice of state secondary schools have abysmally low outcomes + behaviour. Most parents if given the choice would choose Michaela style school over the current offer.
The point is that parents who actively choose Michaela know what they are subscribing too.

I should have clarified, I was talking specifically about the restricted range of subjects.

derxa · 23/02/2025 11:30

A current thread on MN is about the reasons teachers give for their job being unbearable. The main ones are behaviour and parents’ demands. KB seems to have control of both of these issues. There are swathes of unhappy teachers and disruptive pupils whose lives would be transformed by working or studying at a school like Michaela.

Allthebrokenplaces · 23/02/2025 11:04

How many GCSEs do they usually do?
I notice that for Sixth Form, you need eight 7s (and 8s in your chosen subjects).
If they are doing eight GCSEs to that level, it's quite impressive.

Would not be the school for me or my kids, I disagree with her politics (and Jordan Peterson) but so long as people have a choice not to send their kids there, then I think it's a great opportunity for families.

She's definitely controversial though, so OP, YABU.

Valeriekat · 22/02/2025 23:26

HermioneWeasley · 22/02/2025 12:37

I think it’s a mix of “kind racism” - the idea that black and brown kids shouldn’t be expected to have high standards of behaviour and academic success, and also the fact that her schools doesn’t work for all pupils. Every school in the country couldn’t be run along those lines because it’s too inflexible for ND kids, lids from chaotic homes etc. having said that there is definitely a place for it and she give the kids in her school a start in life they wouldn’t otherwise have had.

there’s a lot to be learned from her I think.

Yes she doesn't treat her pupils as victims which is clearly unforgivable.