to think more negative effects will come out from Ozempic use?

Absolutely this

@SwingTheMonkey
Yes, stop it.

She was probably so traumatised by her previous experiences, she's had to change her user name to protect herself from the nasty fat women, and the laughing emoji was just an innocent slip of the finger. It's easy done.

It’s almost as if people come onto threads like this, just to be nasty?

No, no, ignore me - that clearly doesn’t happen…

@JacquesHarlow is obviously still busy.

According to her history, she's never engaged in discussions with users of WLIs and certainly never been silenced or bullied by obese people on MN who refuse to accept that they need to learn to live with being hungry and stop being greedy. In fact, her only weight related interaction was to put a laughing emoji on a post asking advice about buying plus sized tights and then, quelle surprise, disappear when challenged. Nice.

My point about what?

This is true but I think once someone ends up, like me, morbidly obese, there are physiological changes as well.

As you say both negative and/or positive effects in future may come of these and other drugs.

I follow the science around these drugs (and others that affect my family) with interest.

What's your point?

Just for the record @stilllovingmysleep I’m not a slim person and do have constant cravings for unhealthy food. I can completely understand why people turn to weight loss drugs. But still do think (to return to the question of this AIBU) that more negative effects may come out in future, as well as more positive uses for these drugs.

I believe they are describing their feelings accurately but not everyone who uses weight loss drugs experiences the same things.

I was a previous user of Ozempic for weight loss and a friend is currently using Mounjaro and neither of us feel a constant hunger though I appreciate some people do.

Just to add. I had a similar (though less intense) experience of not being hungry in an unmanageable way and losing weight easily.. that was when I followed a very very strict low carb diet for a year. No sugar for a year and a half. Not at all (no exceptions).

I maintained that for 2.5 years but gradually all the weight and all came back on. I was never obese by the way, only ever overweight but with other serious effects on my health and of course to my self confidence.

I feel tremendous relief that I've found a meaningful, manageable way out of that up to dieting and misery of having to avoid ALL carbs or else deal with an unmanageable hunger:

I suggest some curiosity, and interest in others people experiences before making pronouncements or saying what you would and wouldn't do. All of us that got here have had years or issues behind us. I was recommended WLI by not 1 but 3 doctors, and knowing full well the side effects as with all medications, I went in with my eyes open and so far have found the experience incredibly eye opening.

So many people on this thread have been describing their experience of feeling a gnawing constant hunger and a difficulty in being satiated, eg feeling hungry very quickly after a meal, thinking of food constantly etc.

That's very very different to your experience of "snacking even though not hungry". Do you believe they are not describing their experience accurately?

How would you feel if you felt that constant hunger and cravings?

The lesson MJ has taught me is that when thin people say they "make an effort to maintain their weight" (and overweight people don't") they don't know what they're talking about. I now find it completely doable to follow the healthy balanced meal plans I always was able to make (but never followed). I'm able because my hunger is under control. It's a revelation really.

Makes me think it's quite similar to addiction actually and the physical changes that over time happen within the body with that.

I think for some people it is useful to consider the psychological reasons they turn to food for comfort etc whereas for others it isn’t as we’re all different.

As I said, a few less than ideal choices repeated over time. The reasons for those less than ideal choices will vary. If analysing the psychology of it was helpful it would be a well known and effective approach to weight loss. Taking Mounjaro has shown me that a large part of it is physical, not psychological.

Well I think it is personally. Because I know I snack when I’m not even hungry and use food for comfort/because I’m bored/ because I’m upset and all sorts of other reasons unconnected to hunger. And I don’t think I’m alone in that because friends say the same and none of us quite know why we do it 🤷🏼‍♀️

"the psychology of why we eat too much is relevant to any debate about weight problems"

Is it, really? I think it's quite well understood. We live in an environment where you can easily get calorie dense food at all times of the day and night. Our environment is also not conducive to an active lifestyle. A few less than ideal choices made consistently over time results in being overweight and eventually being obese. Then you can add in the cycle of diet-regain that many obese people have been on which further messes with your ability to make better choices around food. And so it goes on.

@Twiglets1
Ok, yes, could be. Unusual/odd to open a discussion in that way, full of drama, though and then just pop off and do something else but we'll see.
I'm done though, off to the pub. Bye xxx

She could just be busy like I have been, it’s ok to make a point and then return to a thread when you’re free again. It’s not like posting on Mumsnet is our jobs.

I don’t know why you think you will be nailed to the wall for this. It’s true that part of getting overweight is the reluctance to feel hungry even for a short while. Speaking for myself I put on weight mainly through too much snacking rather than big portions. So yes the psychology of why we eat too much is relevant to any debate about weight problems. If I could cut out snacking I would be a size 10 again but it’s not that easy & we’re constantly bombarded with temptation.

"But it's been shown that most obese people experience hunger to a very high level (see above re levels of ghrelin and leptin) and are rarely satiated after eating or at least, not for long. Feeling like this all the time is miserable, as I'm sure you can imagine, and it's why traditional diets, which restrict calories, fail for many as they just exacerbate this feeling."

I don't mean to de-rail the thread, but that just reminded me of this: https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/genetic-mutation-in-a-quarter-of-all-labradors-hard-wires-them-for-obesity. Now wondering if all I really needed to do was to scatter my dinner round the garden before eating it.

And two hours later, the oh-so brave, fighter for free speech @JacquesHarlow , who really wanted to discuss an important issue about obese people on WLIs that she's never been allowed to discuss before (due to the aggression and dishonesty of obese people on WLIs apparently) is nowhere to be seen 🙄.

@JacquesHarlow
Just thought I'd also respond to your comment re being accused of having thin privilege. Not nice I'm sure. However, discussions about hunger and fat people can very easily slip into fat-shaming ie. that fat people can't live with normal feelings of hunger and just wait it out for their tea.

Obese people are well-used to being seen as greedy - they experience hunger and because they're greedy, they respond by eating a doughnut or something. And then another as they're still hungry.

But it's been shown that most obese people experience hunger to a very high level (see above re levels of ghrelin and leptin) and are rarely satiated after eating or at least, not for long. Feeling like this all the time is miserable, as I'm sure you can imagine, and it's why traditional diets, which restrict calories, fail for many as they just exacerbate this feeling.

Believe me, if you are and have always been thin, you won't be living with this level of hunger, all day and night. So rather than thin-priveledge, I think you could be more accurately described as fortunate to be metabolically healthy. You experience normal, healthy, manageable levels of hunger and satiety, as do we when we take WLIs.

I also still feel hungry on WLIs. A few times I've experienced full suppression, seems to be when I've moved up doses, but it goes within a few days and then, yes, I do feel hungry. Mostly before lunch and before dinner, but not always. My stomach rumbles and I think about food more. If someone put food in front of me it would be extremely tempting, but not impossible to decline.

The difference between this hunger and THAT hunger, is that this one is manageable. I can snack on fruit if I really want to, and that helps. Or I can just wait until it's time to eat.

THAT hunger, the one I had pre-WLIs, was a totally different beast. With that one I'd have cold sweats, my hands would shake, I'd feel dizzy and sick, my vision was affected, I'd feel confused. The idea of being able to, say, focus on work or just do something else was unrealistic. If someone put food in front of me it would be impossible to decline, and I would go out of my way to find something to eat if I didn't have anything with me.

During one of the many many many diet and lifestyle changes I tried, I took part in the Zoe programme and had a blood sugar monitor for a while. For the first time I could see that, when I get those feelings, my blood sugars dip into the hypoglycemic range. When my blood sugars hit that level I'd get an alert to tell me it wasn't normal. I assume this isn't everyone's experience, but this is something I would experience daily if I didn't make sure I ate when I was hungry. It is also something I've had for as long as I can remember (ie pre-teen and significantly pre-dating any overweight) therefore it's not a result of a metabolism broken by obesity.

From experiencing this daily, I haven't had hypoglycemia since I started on WLIs. This struck me as odd because hypoglycemia is listed as a possible side effect, and I definitely eat less than I did when I wasn't on WLIs, but there you have it. Why this should be, I have no idea.

So - unless this level of of hunger is a normal experience for everyone (and I'm happy to stand corrected if it is) - perhaps some people have different hormone levels, different responses to those hormone levels, and perhaps the WLIs have done something to help correct this.

Incidentally @KrankyKumquat I can relate to everything you've said on this thread.

I am going to just mimick what other user have said, it doesn't remove hunger but makes it manageable.

I now realise how normal people feel hunger. Not an overwhelming need to eat but just a normal level of hunger. So I am getting hungry right now. Our dinner time is 6 so I will have low level hunger for the next couple of hours and then ill eat without a problem.

Prior to MJ I would be insatiable hungry. I have done fasts and the closest thing I can describe is that insatiable hunger is having not eaten in a day. When I ignore it I would end up shaking and lightheaded ( more so if I skip a meal or had somethign like just a small salad for lunch) and so irritable that I would scream or cry at the drop of a hat.

Did you know that in obesity calorie restrictions leads to a drop in dopamine (this is the key component in our reward centre)

Being on MJ I see how normal people experience hunger and for the first time in my life I see a way to be like everyone else. This is why we are so defensive of the drug. It gives that reset and allows up to control our lives.

I’m not going to nail you to the wall, it’s a good point.

All I can say is for me yes I do still get hungry but I can manage the hunger now. Likes of Sunday morning I was going swimming. I felt hungry but didn’t want to swim on a full stomach so I swam and then had some food after. Whereas before MJ the hunger was unmanageable I couldn’t just get on with what I was doing whilst I felt hungry. It was like a physical pain combined with a voice inside screaming at me to eat.

Likes of today I’ve had my lunch and won’t need to eat again till dinner. Yes I’ll feel hungry for it when it comes but I don’t need to damp down the hunger with food meantime.

@JacquesHarlow
Not sure where you've tried to discuss this before and experienced such extreme reactions but hunger is something that gets discussed a lot on WLI threads. And I think you're partly right; some people may chase complete hunger suppression whereas others recognise that hunger is a normal physiological response that we need to recognise and manage in a healthy way.

I don't actually agree that 'making you feel full for longer' is about hunger though - that's about satiety, after a meal, which MJ helps with by increasing the leptin peptide. Simultaneously, ghrelin peptide is reduced - this reduces hunger somewhat. But it's not intended that you literally starve yourself, new users are constantly advised that they need to eat, at least something even if they're not really hungry which you might not be in the early days of taking the drug - believe me, I still feel hungry at least once a day.