Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

That MAGA guy will still have clocked she was a woman.

That’s the thing- she thinks that if he knew she was female he would attack her, but she can’t cope with the fact he did know, and it made no difference. It causes the whole edifice to crumble, she is just as safe or unsafe because MAGA guy is male.

Oh don’t be silly @ThisPinkWyvern

Transmen are women. Otherwise they couldn’t be trans.

What a load of BS you're spouting, OP! I haven't laughed so much in days!

Not having a Penis is not what makes someone a woman. As others have said, it's their chromosomes that determine their sex. More specifically, the absence of the Y chromosome.

No Y chromosome means you are female.
Having a Y chromosome means you are male, and this is still the case for those with disorders of sexual development. Eg,

XY ..... MALE
XXY .... MALE
XXXY ..... STILL MALE.

XX ...... FEMALE
XXX ...... STILL FEMALE.

ETC.

HUMANS CANNOT CHANGE SEX. IT IS A PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE, SAME AS ANOREXIA.

Chopping a man's penis off and turning it inside out does not magically turn it into a vulva/vagina or him into a woman. It's still a penis. And it still belongs to a MAN.

Mother Nature eh, what a TERF.

And for that 1%, we've had society turned upside down, our language re-defined - women and girls called 'menstruators', 'bleeders', and 'uterus havers', we have had intact males in women and girls changing rooms and stealing the sports scholarships, awards and places of women and girls. And, males in rape crisis centres sitting in on women's trauma literally grinning at hearing the stories (per 'Sarah' and her story which many here will be familiar with).

NEVER before has such a tiny minority had such overreaching POWER. Never. Gay men never had this power. Not even so-called (forgive me for using this term) 'cis' men. Transwomen are at the top of the totem pole higher than 'cis' men.

Gender Ideology is a dangerous misogynistic Mens Rights Movement cult. Its taken every single right women and girls have ever had to fight for. And the intense sheer HATE for women and girls dripping from the OP's post (who I have no doubt is a male and Andrew Tate-loving incel here to cause trouble) is palpable.

If the same criteria is applied to a post op transgender woman her lack of a penis would mean that her biological sex would be determined to be female not male. Since the Gender Critical Movement's ideology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum- an individual without a penis and outer female genitals is by default designated female. A post op transgender woman is categorised as female therefore using the same criteria that categorised her as male at birth.

so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

So by your own logic an MtF trans who has not had surgery is still a biological man because they still have a penis.

However even post op that person may not have a penis, but they don't have ovaries, a uterus or a vagina either.

Biology has a way of demonstrating that a transgender woman is not a biological woman.

Sorry that happened to you. These Male Supremacists are mentally unwell and really truly HATE women. The OP should be ashamed of themselves but in order to feel shame you have to be human and have a sense of human decency.

Most women have no time to think about their "I".
Too busy spinning plates and doing the grunt work.

Er, no. Sex is shown by chromosomes and DNA. Not just a penis or lack of. A de-nutted male dog is still a male dog. That is what your dangerous ideology ignores. Even trans themselves admit they cannot change sex, so you are out of step and coming across as quite unhinged. You can't change your chromosomes and DNA = you can't change sex. Biology is chromosomes and DNA. Not a cock, nuts or breasts. But DNA that is in every single cell in your body. That is BIOLOGY. A male dog that has had its nuts removed REMAINS a male dog.

You also ignore the fact that up to 97% of transwomen retain their penis and testicles. In other words, almost none have the operation. Your ideology denies the ACTUAL lived experience of biological women. Every time you GASLIGHT women and girls to deny their actual lived experience as the oppressed sex class in order to cosplay in a male's fetish, you harm women. Eery time you gaslight a rape survivor to call her rapist a 'she', you harm women.

But you don't care.... do you? You're a Male Supremacist that believes actual females in the actual oppressed sex class should be gaslit to deny our actual lived experience to cosplay in a male's fetish. Your HATE and disregard for the rights of women and girls says it all. Go back to your Andrew Tate videos. Your dangerous Meninist ideology has done so much to harm to rights of females all over the world. I really wonder how you sleep at night.

The fact that you spew dangerous Gender Ideology talking points and ignore the profound effect this cult has on the rights of women and girls says a lot. You're brainwashed. And you have no concern whatsoever for the sex-based rights under your dangerous ideology.

the Gender Critical Movement's ideology Biology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum

You've discovered a spectrum of biological sex? Wow! Does it apply to all life, all animals, all mammals or only humans?

Here's the hypothesised sex spectrum. Does your astounding discovery conform to the hypothesis?

The people doing the most harm to trans people, whether MtF or FtM, are not Donald Trump or, heaven forfend, Mumsnetters. That accolade goes to the trans rights activists, the ones who are making all the noise and all the demands. The trans people I know (2 MtF) just want to get on quietly with their lives. They aren't the ones* insisting that Lia Thomas should be allowed to swim in the women's category, or a 6foot male aged 30 be allowed to play in a girls' football team with teenage girls, or a rapist who raped as a man but now demands to be in a women's prison just because they want to for validation.

*in fact they are very much against those demands

And that brings me to a point I feel very strongly about. Any man who says he feels like a woman, but sees nothing wrong and indeed celebrates the 6 footer playing in the girls' team or the rapist in a women's prison, does not feel like a woman. They are demonstrating an overwhelming sense of male entitlement.

For centuries, and probably since time began, some of those people with a penis (in general parlance referred to as men) have used their penis as a weapon to control, humiliate and damage women. Most abusers are men who abuse women. Anyone who claims to feel like a woman but fails to acknowledge those facts has no idea of the fear that women can feel. There is no solidarity with their claimed sisterhood, only a self centred and self serving wish to impose their will on others.

I have no ill will towards people like my friends. I will defend them. Because they are not trying to assert male dominance over women. They just are who they are.

But if you want trans people to feel safe, you need the TRAs to back off. Don't make the lives of my friends more dangerous to satisfy to the nth degree your own ideology.

Trans men are indeed women. There are not all that many trans men who (for example) seek a transfer to the male prison estate. Because that would be insane. And even if they did, I doubt the prison estate would even consider it, for safety reasons.
Far too many trans men have significant co-morbidities, a past of sexual abuse or trauma, or otherwise want to "escape" the realities of being female.

Very well said!

Plenty of trans people don't believe men are women. And vice versa. (They are just coping with their mental health issues in the best way that works for them). They naturally, resent being considered entitled aresholes like the new age lot.

Lesbians and transsexuals have been being silenced and erased and had their rights violated by this movement. Where was your outcry for them?

Or for the children who have been brainwashed into thinking they are trans?
Told that they can't be a tom boy or a boy who likes feminine things anymore. Had underage surgery. Been taken from their parents. Had to detransition and then be shunned by people who they thought were their friends. Been lied to about puberty blockers not being harmful. Where was your offence at that?

Or the women who have been abused and gaslighted into internalised mysoginy to such an extent that they feel like they want to crawl out of their own skin - and grasped onto this ideology thinking it to be a saftey net.

Or the sportswomen that trained their whole lives only to have a biological man steal their spot and their livelihoods.

The movement is rank rotten.

And thats not the fault of every individual because a lot of them fall under the above, abused, gaslighted and lied to at their most vulnerable.

But the new age trans activism movement as a whole is lying, narcissistic, abusive and brainwashing.

They've set women rights back decades.

And ironically, they've set trans rights back too. They can arguably blame themselves for trump as lots of people probably figured he was the lesser evil. Ironically, they may even be correct.

You're not arguing for freedom, your arguing for entitlement. People are free to think whatever they like about themselves. They shouldn't be free to make other people lie about agreeing for fear of reprisals. That's not democratic. It's like something the nazis would do. Or, a cult. Which it is. Wake up and smell the coffee.

If I was trans, I'd rather people had the decency to be honest with me. And to tell me if I was making them uncomfortable. I wouldn't want my fellow women to feel scared in my presence. I wouldn't want to take their safe spaces. Plenty of trans people are good people. But this new age version are like spoiled little children. And people have understandably had enough.

Are you drunk?

OP is mixing up two things.

One is having feelings. Sure, you're the only one who knows what those feelings are like. (And by the same token, you don't know what feelings other people are having, so how you know you feel "like a man" is a bit of a mystery, but that's another story.)

The second thing is what place those feelings should have in the outside world. And since, as soon as we're in the outside world, there is at least the potential for a clash with other people's wishes, needs and rights, it is not a foregone conclusion that you should get everything you want. If you don't, you are not being "gaslit". You are simply learning that (as my mother used to say) you are not the only pebble on the beach.

OK I will bite because I am in a bad mood.

What does “lived experience” mean in this context? No male can have the same lived experience of a female and visa versa. They have different organs, different levels of strength and different hazards they experience in life.

How possibly can a male “feel like a woman” and how can a woman “feel like a man” other than based on gendered and sexist stereotypes.

I can understand if someone doesn’t feel “like a man “ if they are male because of the sexist nature of society they don’t fit into the accepted stereotype of males in their culture, but saying I need access to female spaces because I “feel” like a woman doesn’t work because you are not a woman.

So it’s “gaslighting” to tell a trans identifying person they’re still the sex they are and that’s bad, but when that person wants to pretend to be something they’re not by gaslighting the rest of the world, that’s good?

Makes about as much sense as the rest of gender ideology.

People can subjectively experience their “I” however they want. They just can’t expect the rest of the world to agree with something that is objectively something else.

Trans identifying male thinks he’s a woman. He can’t force the rest of us to agree when it’s objectively not true and organise society and legislation around his subjective experience of “I”.

Organising society around the subjective experience of “I” is probably the most batshit way or organising anything since the dawn of human civilisation.

It's a shame that the Trumpists only know what a woman is because they want to control her.

Hard to know where even to start with this one. It's such a pile of strawman waffle.
It pretty much lumps in left leaning feminists supporting women's rights with right wing Trump supporters on the flimsy basis that both have criticisms of the trans movement and both know that female people exist. Not the same thing and if you think they are, then you've got no clue as to what the actual arguments are.
As a very basic primer:
Trumpism/traditional conservatism:
~believes sex matters, believes in gender stereotypes
Gender critical feminism:
~believes sex matters, rejects gender stereotypes
Trans activism:
~rejects sex, promotes gender stereotypes

Both Trump and trans activism have serious sexism problems.

OP will never be back.

Men can't be women and women can't be men.

Hope this helps.

@ThisPinkWyvern so who do I complain to about the horrific emotional abuse I am suffering from the following:

My utility companies who won't accept that I identify as someone who doesn't pay bills and keep sending me horrible invalidating and traumatizing letters threatening credit agency and bailiff action.

My bank who won't accept my true identity as a billionaire and are refusing to let me withdraw billions.

My doctor who won't accept my identity as a slim person with healthy blood pressure and cholesterol levels. They simply gaslight me constantly about how I am obese. How dare they ?!! They are abusing me.

It is the chromosomes that determine sex. Not the genitals. And because it is the chromosomes that cause specific genitals to develop, it is why people are registered as male or female at birth without having to resort to DNA tests. In the rare cases where there is a mismatch between the genitals and the chromosomes, sex is determined by the chromosomes.

Therefore, no matter what genitals you are born with or what you do to them in later life, your sex won't change because your chromosomes can't change.