Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

Also… this is a UK site. We didn’t vote for Trump, and as a GC woman I wouldn’t have voted for him even if he does support GC principles. He is a pussy grabbing misogynist whose wider policies are detrimental to too many Americans and the world and would never have got my vote.

Very well said

I'm afraid it was inevitable that reality would bite the trans movement.

You all have yourselves to blame whipping each other up into a state of high anxiety that words are "literal violence".

You all pushed too far. Sports, prisons, rape crisis centres, dv shelters. All places where women and girls have suffered actual harm because of males in places they have no business being.

There was never any empathy for the women and girls suffering actual harm, for their lived experience, for their terror, the psychological harm from being coerced an gaslit into undressing in front of makes against their will and consent.

So why you expect empathy because you have to have the correct sex on your passport is beyond me.

Err, fear and terror of what?

Trump hasn’t made it legal to kill or do things that terrify people has he?

Hasn’t banned being a trans man or woman? Trans people can go about their lives as trans people, but are legally their sex, not gender.

I am legally my sex not gender. Which in reality has also led to being terrified, on occasion, by the other sex.

GC isn’t an ideology. It is simply basing life on the reality of sex rather than the cultural manifestation of gender.

I kind of feel that the trans movement has scored a bit of an own goal

Like a child who starts pushing a boundary, then pushes some more, more and more and more before eventually being told they have pushed it too far and are now being grounded

The movement has Trumped themselves. Had it remained moderate and respectful of other people's thoughts and feelings rather than demanding 99% change to accommodate the 1% then Trump may not have been voted in. He is the result of the 99% saying enough

I am no Trump fan - I think he is a dangerous narcissistic idiot same as I feel about Farage but I can see how his being voted in came about

It's not 'Gender critical movement ideology' it's called Biology & Scientific fact.

There are 2 sexes & they have been separated in some situations eg public toilets due to risks posed by 1 sex to the other. Many women were raped & assaulted & fought to get that safety for the rest of us. Don't try to undo that just to validate a minority who have been brainwashed into an unscientific ideology.

There are a few problems with other people’s sense of ‘I’.
How you think about yourself doesn’t change other people’s perceptions of you.

It Can’t impose on other people- your inner sense can’t change the words I use, just the ones you use. It also can’t change history. My brother throughout my childhood is still my brother, regardless of how he dresses or his sense of I.

Adults who bully their children think of themselves as disciplinarian, authoritarian, good parents.

At the extreme end, very few rapists identify as rapists. They tend to think what they did was ok- persuasion, following through, assertive, pushy. They don’t like to think of themselves as rapists, just as people who like to get what they want, h get their own way, be successful, winners.
women are raped by men who don’t identify as rapists.

denying the lived experience of people who look at transgender folk and recognise what they biologically are? That’s gaslighting.

call yourself what you will - don’t ask others to deny reality because of your feels.

It is this simple basic logic that was responsible for the term transsexual being coined - so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

Someone needs to go back to school.

It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma. It is bring gaslighted about the most fundamental aspect of one's being. Everytime the wrong pronoun is used, everytime a gender designation appears on an identity document that conflicts with an individuals innate experience of themself, everytime the individual has to walk into a changing room, public toilet, or hospital ward that conflicts with their innate experience of themself, every time they are referred to by a given name that conflicts with their innate experience of their self, a transgender person is being gaslit and emotionally abused.

Good grief! And I thought I was sensitive. Nobody likes to be called things they did not choose themselves, yet it happens every day. You cannot control what other people say, what they call you or how they see you. It's sucks, but that is the reality for us all.

I am also baffled by the astounding hypocrisy. So it's fine for them to demand we use chosen names, pronouns and nouns for them. However, if we object (and even if we don't) to being called terms such as "cis", "uterus-haver", "terf", etc, then we are the "violent", "hateful" "bigots". I am sure I have forgotten a few epithets, but I no longer care.

I am done catering to violent narcs.

Of course gender questioning people are struggling- they've been lied to and had their delusions cruelly affirmed, and now they're being forced to face reality. It's like a child who wants to be a bird being assured, by adults too scared to upset them, that they'll sprout wings on their 18th birthday, and waking up to find they still have no feathers. It's far, far worse than if everyone had just supported them to deal with the truth in the first place.

A man without a penis is a eunuch not a woman.

Women don't have prostates, men don't have ovaries a womb and a vag. A penis isn't the sole identifier.

There is a lot of 'me, me, me' in your post. The reality is people can self declare as anything they like- the problem is that everyone else has their own autonomy and doesn't have to play along with their delusion. You can tell me you are the opposite sex - nothing can compell me to believe you. I work with a trans woman. She is a very nice person- I am respectful, I call her she and by her chosen name. She isn't a woman she is a transwoman and no one can force me to deny that reality

The truth isn't an ideology. Or is 'the earth is round' also an ideology and denying the earth is flat is deeply upsetting and invalidating to flat earthers so we should just say the earth is flat to keep them happy while denying the truth - that it is round.

Unscientific, uneducated, illogical, and false crap.
Do better, OP.

Been wanting to ask for someone for a while, so this seems like a good opportunity.

What is the difference between "lived experience" and "experience"?

Women can't chop their penis off ( as they aren't born with one) Hth the OP.

The real and present dangers faced by transmen (biological females who identify as men) is not reduced or mitigated in any way if authorities and hyperprogressive virtue-signallers go along with the pretence. They are at risk because of the endemic sexism and enforcement of the sexust stereotypes that they are trying to escape. They are at risk both from both sexist men and sexist women, who may well subject them to various kinds of violence and prejudice. That violence and prejudice is very wrong but they are not subject to it due to being trans but due to the fact thar they are women who are transgressing sexist expectations.

Trump is a sexist. The pro-trans lobby who isist that it is possible to change sex is equally sexist. There is no way for someone born male to "live as a woman" or for someone born female to "live as a man" except through sexism. Without sexism, both men and women can live, act and dress any way they damn well please and that's totally fine and whether you're a man (the kind of human who makes the small mobile gametes in the event of reproduction if the relevant organs are working) or a woman (the kind of human who makes the large immobile gametes in the event of reproduction if the relevant organs are working) is totally irrelevant in almost all circumstances in terms of expectations for how someone will dress or behave, and amyone is totally free to manifest their personality in accordance with the stereotypes associated with the opposite sex if they still want to. In the small number of circumstances where it is necessary to differentiate by sex, transmen are as much at risk as women are, because they are female. Ensuring that protections for women apply for transmen too is important.

You'd need to ask the men how they feel about women presenting as men using their spaces. If I was guessing, I wouldn't think transgender would feel particularly safe doing so

Oh, my footnotes went a bit awry. Hopefully comprehensibke anyway.

Sex determination in monotremes is fascinating btw: pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2413164/

Terror? Why are they living in terror? I haven't heard of any attacks on trans people since the orange one became king. They surely have the same rights as everyone else.

@ThisPinkWyvern

Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

I think very few GC people seek to dictate how anyone (trans or otherwise) experience their sense of “I”. Some? Sure. Most? Absolutely not.

If that’s been your understanding of the GC movement then I hope we can help put your mind at rest.

What GC people are mainly concerned with are social and legal rights.

They don’t generally depend on someone’s subjective sense of “I”, and shouldn’t do.

Other than in the case of trans policy, can you think of examples where rights depend on subjective self-identification (either to acquire rights or remove the rights of others?).

The closest case is belief protections. And most GC people support rights akin to belief protections to apply to trans people’s beliefs about themselves.

I hope that helps make you feel better. Trans people’s rights aren’t really analysed any differently from rights in general. Because trans people are people.

This is correct in 99.995% of cases, but just to note that we now know that the biological switch is the SRY gene on the Y chromosome. It's also now possible to test for this directly rather than just looking for a Barr body, and doing so would be the right sex screening test to use in elite level sport for example.

It is possible - but very rare - for the SRY gene to be found in XX individuals (de la Chapelle syndrome) or to be absent in XY individuals (Swyer sybdrome).

It's also possible, but even rarer, for an individual to have different chromosomes in different parts of their body, perhaps because two zygotes fused together.

Also that while SRY determines sex in mammals, it does not define sex - which is a classification of bodies* into two classes, characterised by their typical production of large or small gametes, and which applies to almost all animals and plants.

Of course not of these rare cases, or any other DSDs, have any relevance to the 99.9% of people for whom chromosomes, genes, genitals, gonads, and gametes all line up over their lifetime in the typical male or female fashion.

• Except platypuses and echidnas. ** Or parts of bodies, e.g. in worms.

I just read that Democrat Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers has introduced a bill that will change state law to replace the word "mother" with "inseminated person."

You betcha father will still be father.

Inseminated person. That is what we're (If Evers gets his way) reducing women to now. And some of you still can't see how malicious, malignant and misogynistic this Mens Rights Movement is.

Inseminated person? FUCK OFF! The more this goes on, the more I really am starting to hate trans people. For real.

But it's the truth, trans women are men! Even if they chop off their dick and balls they are still men with XY chromosome and no amount of surgery can change that. We should do the same in this country

What the? Aren't safe or wanted in America? What type of bullshit darvo and gaslighting is this??!!! They are the safest, most powerful, most privileged and most protected group in America and elsewhere! They are THE most safest group there is.

And stop minimising the affect of the large number of women and girls losing out to males in sports. Including losing a sports scholarship to college which means they now can't go to college at all. Its a massive amount, not just a 'few'. Even one, is one too many! Over 5000 transwomen victors, 27 world records, 109 U.S. records, $1.6 million in prize money. Just in the last few yrs. https://www.hecheated.org/totals_results_2020s

the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space

Nonsense — like the rest of OP’s attempt at an argument. We have a steady stream of trans-identifying men coming to court in the UK for rape and other offences against women, often in women-only spaces.

UK Ministry of Justice statistics show that trans-identifying men commit crimes at least as often as other men, and commit more sexual offences.

In UK prisons, 58% of trans-identifying men have been convicted of a violent or sexual offence, compared with 16% of non-trans-identifying male prisoners and 3% of female prisoners.
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/default/