Page 30 | Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

ThisPinkWyvern · 2025-02-22T02:04:15+00:00

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified. The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison. In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls. When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

Standingforever · 22/02/2025 08:35

Love the way TMAM, becomes TMAW when you want to use it to bash us with. See how easy it is to switch from gender identity to sex in particular situations after all?

Let’s be clear, women can live as men if they acknowledge their sex in situations where it matters. Just as men can live as women ( whatever that means to them) as long as they acknowledge their sec where it matters.

This whole sorry situation could have been avoided if only the trans movement had chosen to campaign to be genuinely proud to be trans by acknowledging sex, rather than pretending to be literally, and in all situations, something they are not, and never can be. It’s a lot more psychologically healthy to tell people they are something they are, then tell them they can be something they cannot be.

NotTerfNorCis · 22/02/2025 08:33

Transgender ideology spread very quickly. Anyone who objected even slightly could find their careers trashed; they could be arrested or sued. By which I mean objected to the concept of 'gender identity' taking precedence over biological sex in all circumstances, and the concept of 'a woman is anyone who says she a woman'. Precisely because this happened so fast and so forcefully, there was a powerful right-wing backlash. It's the likes of Trump who were able to use genderist excess to get where they are. Transgenderism latched itself on to feminism and gay rights, and is now pulling them down with it as it crashes out. The worse thing - genderists know this, and blame feminists!

Reetpetitenot · 22/02/2025 08:31

'Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.'

This shows what a lot of complete cock 'gender' is. Your paragraph above would suggest there are about 9 billion genders on the planet. And 2 sexes.

And I doubt there are :millions ' of transgender individuals in the US.

forgotmyusername1 · 22/02/2025 08:31

Fimofriend · 22/02/2025 08:13

No, the claim that one percent of the population is trans comes from a British survey that used a vocabulary that was hard to understand. Especially for foreigners. When researchers noticed that the level of trans identified individuals was much higher in areas with many foreigners they became suspicious and sent out a new survey asking about the same subjects but with a clearer language. The new survey indicates that the number of trans identified individuals is much much lower than one percent.

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They found that on a survey where a large number of people put that trans women should be allowed to use women's bathrooms. On closer investigation it turned our the responders thought it meant women who were trans rather than men who wanted to be women. This is why language is important

OneLemonGuide · 22/02/2025 08:30

Interesting to note that "trans" are always identifying from one to the other, maintaining the binary of sex while insisting sex is not binary.

If only that were true… Trans-ideology has led to an explosion of genders! My favourite is cupcakegender 😂

gender.fandom.com/wiki/Cupcakegender?so=search

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/02/2025 08:30

Bigcat25 · 22/02/2025 02:33

Jesus, not everything is about the bathroom. They aren't safe or wanted in America. A trans person I know was just asked by a maga guy if she had any spare bullets. Most trans people are trying to get on with there lives and mind there own business, but that doesn't grab headlines like the few that are benefitting from women's sports.

Show quote history

People on Mumsnet aren't responsible for what is happening in America.

OnWednesdayswewearpinkIYKYK · 22/02/2025 08:29

Only read the first post. What an utter load of crap.

OP, you are definitely being unreasonable.

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 22/02/2025 08:28

SpidersAreShitheads · 22/02/2025 03:23

Trump is a cunt.
Humans can't change sex. Transwomen are men, transmen are women.
Everyone deserves to be safe, without infringing on the safety of others.

There have been lots of excellent posts so far but i agree with this one and its beautiful simplicity

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/02/2025 08:28

Trump is not gender critical.

Trans men are indeed women.

Gender critical feminists haven't harmed anyone.

Everyone who encouraged vulnerable people to believe that they can change sex has caused a huge amount of harm though, and many those who have actually been involved in providing "gender affirming care" should be struck off the medical register and thrown in jail.

HTH.

TeaAndStrumpets · 22/02/2025 08:27

Hi OP you are talking piffle.

EmoIsntDead · 22/02/2025 08:26

Sodthesystem · 22/02/2025 03:55

Plenty of trans people don't believe men are women. And vice versa. (They are just coping with their mental health issues in the best way that works for them). They naturally, resent being considered entitled aresholes like the new age lot.

Lesbians and transsexuals have been being silenced and erased and had their rights violated by this movement. Where was your outcry for them?

Or for the children who have been brainwashed into thinking they are trans?
Told that they can't be a tom boy or a boy who likes feminine things anymore. Had underage surgery. Been taken from their parents. Had to detransition and then be shunned by people who they thought were their friends. Been lied to about puberty blockers not being harmful. Where was your offence at that?

Or the women who have been abused and gaslighted into internalised mysoginy to such an extent that they feel like they want to crawl out of their own skin - and grasped onto this ideology thinking it to be a saftey net.

Or the sportswomen that trained their whole lives only to have a biological man steal their spot and their livelihoods.

The movement is rank rotten.

And thats not the fault of every individual because a lot of them fall under the above, abused, gaslighted and lied to at their most vulnerable.

But the new age trans activism movement as a whole is lying, narcissistic, abusive and brainwashing.

They've set women rights back decades.

And ironically, they've set trans rights back too. They can arguably blame themselves for trump as lots of people probably figured he was the lesser evil. Ironically, they may even be correct.

You're not arguing for freedom, your arguing for entitlement. People are free to think whatever they like about themselves. They shouldn't be free to make other people lie about agreeing for fear of reprisals. That's not democratic. It's like something the nazis would do. Or, a cult. Which it is. Wake up and smell the coffee.

If I was trans, I'd rather people had the decency to be honest with me. And to tell me if I was making them uncomfortable. I wouldn't want my fellow women to feel scared in my presence. I wouldn't want to take their safe spaces. Plenty of trans people are good people. But this new age version are like spoiled little children. And people have understandably had enough.

well said! 👏

Areolaborealis · 22/02/2025 08:24

So you are arguing that trans men should be treated as though they are biological men? So that means they should be expected to compete against biological men in sport, go to men's prisons, use men's toilets and changing rooms? You don't see any issues with the above and believe this is the best way to support the safety and dignity of trans men?

Helleofabore · 22/02/2025 08:24

@ThisPinkWyvern

While this is going to be a great thread to discuss the actual harms to those female people who have a transgender identity if they are treated as if their philosophical belief that they are male was material reality, I suspect your posts are actually more about leveraging those female people to validate male people with transgender identities.

There are significant issues that female people face if they are treated as if they were male, and this is a great thread to discuss those. Such as putting female people in male prisons. Another is the inherent discrimination that comes with female people taking testosterone never going to have fair competition in an open or the male sports categories, and at least a discussion could be had around whether those female people need a special sports category just for them,

Another major issue to discuss is to highlight lack of symmetry in the brutality of the surgeries that female people are being encouraged to undergo in pursuit of making their bodies fit a philosophical belief vs the still brutal but less life limiting and potentially less life shortening medical experiences that male people undergo?

I mean, I have not seen a male equivalent of the ‘yeet the teets’ promotional activity with doctors holding buckets filled with breast tissue as if it was a grand achievement. Or was there an ‘unstick the dick’ or something as pithy as yeet the teets that has been used to commoditise brutal elective surgeries?

Shall we discuss the care of detransitioners too?

This is going to be a great thread. The needs of those female people are very important and so often used as leverage and dismissed by extreme trans activists. And by extreme trans activists, I mean those who demand that gender is prioritised over sex when sex matters in that situation. Which seems to be your position, but please correct me if I am wrong.

EffortlesslyInelegant · 22/02/2025 08:23

"Democrat Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers has introduced a bill that will change state law to replace the word "mother" with "inseminated person."

This bollocks right here is why Trump won the election.

OneLemonGuide · 22/02/2025 08:23

Trans-ideology seems to have cratered remarkably quickly. It was only in 2023 that Dylan Mulvaney won “woman of the year” and fronted a Bud-light marketing campaign!

Soontobe60 · 22/02/2025 08:23

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 03:08

It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma. It is bring gaslighted about the most fundamental aspect of one's being. Everytime the wrong pronoun is used, everytime a gender designation appears on an identity document that conflicts with an individuals innate experience of themself, everytime the individual has to walk into a changing room, public toilet, or hospital ward that conflicts with their innate experience of themself, every time they are referred to by a given name that conflicts with their innate experience of their self, a transgender person is being gaslit and emotionally abused.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis. Presence of penis = boy, lack of penis =girl. The designation of the sex of an individual on their birth certificate reflects the categorisation of the individual's sex according to this criteria.

If the biological sex of an individual cannot be changed then the results of using the same test to determine the sex of the individual at birth would remain unchanged no matter at what point the criteria was applied during an individual's life. If the same criteria is applied to a post op transgender woman her lack of a penis would mean that her biological sex would be determined to be female not male. Since the Gender Critical Movement's ideology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum- an individual without a penis and outer female genitals is by default designated female. A post op transgender woman is categorised as female therefore using the same criteria that categorised her as male at birth.

It is this simple basic logic that was responsible for the term transsexual being coined - so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

Utter nonsense - but thanks for giving us a laugh.
The only ‘lived experience’ a person who claims to be the opposite sex has, is that they are one sex but are pretending to be the other. Males cannot have ‘lived experience’ of being female and vice versa. Sex is determined at conception and is immutable. Men who have had their penis removed are still men. Women who have had their breasts removed are still women.
Pronouns belong to the person using them - compelled speech is coercive and controlling. Don’t try to tell me to deny reality dear.

TumbledTussocks · 22/02/2025 08:22

I'm just so please that as a long time GC feminist I'm not in away ties to the side that sterilises queer, traumatised or ND people for profit.

Randomer75 · 22/02/2025 08:21

Just thinking this a bit further. It isn’t just GC people who think trans men are women. Everyone knows it to be true- even the transmen themselves.

You, OP, know that TWAM and TMAW and that you are mangling language and your own brain to recite the Catechism.

You cannot square it’s so damaging to be told they’re [correct sex] with the fact they do actually know their correct sex.

You are living by lies, and not little white lies of kindness, but nasty lies which cause way more damage to people than reality ever can do. You are a virtue signalling user, and can’t believe that other people have sufficient integrity to stick to reality, regardless of your slurs and scolding.

Meceme · 22/02/2025 08:21

carben · 22/02/2025 08:16

So, in real life, what happens when a trans man who looks and acts like a man walks into a female toilet. How do others in there know they are trans and not just an actual biological man? Do they have to announce they are trans on entering the toilet to whoever is there? Or just ignore the other users?

Absolutely nothing because most women can correctly sex others more easily than men can. Its height, stature, gait, emotional presentation.
A transman would be read as a butch presenting female not a potential threat.
They might get a second glance to check then everybody would just go about their business.

carben · 22/02/2025 08:16

So, in real life, what happens when a trans man who looks and acts like a man walks into a female toilet. How do others in there know they are trans and not just an actual biological man? Do they have to announce they are trans on entering the toilet to whoever is there? Or just ignore the other users?

IButtleSir · 22/02/2025 08:15

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 03:08

It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma. It is bring gaslighted about the most fundamental aspect of one's being. Everytime the wrong pronoun is used, everytime a gender designation appears on an identity document that conflicts with an individuals innate experience of themself, everytime the individual has to walk into a changing room, public toilet, or hospital ward that conflicts with their innate experience of themself, every time they are referred to by a given name that conflicts with their innate experience of their self, a transgender person is being gaslit and emotionally abused.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis. Presence of penis = boy, lack of penis =girl. The designation of the sex of an individual on their birth certificate reflects the categorisation of the individual's sex according to this criteria.

If the biological sex of an individual cannot be changed then the results of using the same test to determine the sex of the individual at birth would remain unchanged no matter at what point the criteria was applied during an individual's life. If the same criteria is applied to a post op transgender woman her lack of a penis would mean that her biological sex would be determined to be female not male. Since the Gender Critical Movement's ideology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum- an individual without a penis and outer female genitals is by default designated female. A post op transgender woman is categorised as female therefore using the same criteria that categorised her as male at birth.

It is this simple basic logic that was responsible for the term transsexual being coined - so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

Have you heard of chromosomes, my love?

Surf2Live · 22/02/2025 08:14

Sex is a genetically determined developmental pathway along only one of two lines, either male or female. You cannot go backwards on that pathway.

Female = developed to produce large immobile gametes (whether or not she actually does produce them)

Male = developed to produce small motile gametes (whether or not he actually does produce them)

Sex in mammals is one of the true binaries.

People with developmental sex disorders (DSDs) are either male or female. There is no third sex, there is no third gamete.

The vast vast majority of "trans" people are NOT people with DSDs and so bringing those people into the argument as many TRAs do is a strawman. "Trans" people are normal males or females who simply wish they were not and want to be the opposite sex.

Interesting to note that "trans" are always identifying from one to the other, maintaining the binary of sex while insisting sex is not binary.

Sex is important for humans because males and females are on average quite different. Males are generally bigger, stronger and faster. They pose significant risk to the safety of females in specific situations. This is why women fought so hard for our own spaces, facilities and sports. It's why feminists in the 1970s worked to create rape crisis centres and domestic violence shelters. Sex, not gender. It matters, especially to women's safety, dignity and privacy.

The problem with self identification that trans rights activists want, and the problem with "believe me when I tell you who I am" is if they get what they want then ANY MAN including predatory men can self id into women's spaces, violating our rights, safety, dignity and privacy. ANY MAN INCLUDING PREDATORS. And as there is NO objective way to identify any "true trans" person from a predatory male, women are vulnerable. Making life easy for predators to predate on women and girls.

The utter refusal of the TRAs to acknowledge this fact, this very simple logic, is why Trump has been elected.

This is on YOU op.

Fimofriend · 22/02/2025 08:13

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 03:40

"Also, millions in the US?"

https://usafacts.org/articles/what-percentage-of-the-us-population-is-transgender/

It is estimated that thr population of transgender individuals in the US is about 1% of the population. This equates to about 2. 3 million people.

No, the claim that one percent of the population is trans comes from a British survey that used a vocabulary that was hard to understand. Especially for foreigners. When researchers noticed that the level of trans identified individuals was much higher in areas with many foreigners they became suspicious and sent out a new survey asking about the same subjects but with a clearer language. The new survey indicates that the number of trans identified individuals is much much lower than one percent.

aModernClassic · 22/02/2025 08:13

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 03:40

"Also, millions in the US?"

https://usafacts.org/articles/what-percentage-of-the-us-population-is-transgender/

It is estimated that thr population of transgender individuals in the US is about 1% of the population. This equates to about 2. 3 million people.

So you think 99% of the population should accommodate people who obviously need the help of mental health services?
Trans men are women. Always have been, and always will be. If the Biden administration didn't pander to this stupid ideology, the number of people that recently transitioned, would be much lower and would have been save from this "trauma". Blame Biden. Blame the pandering of the media, blame the teachers and the doctors spreading this nonsense.
For once Trump is right.

Peekingovertheparapet · 22/02/2025 08:08

I’m not sure I agree with your opening post. I think it’s more nuanced than that. I think plenty of GC people believe the lived experience of genuinely trans identifying people, and that trans men are trans men and trans women are trans women. The issue comes with single sex facilities, as trans women are not biologically female there is an issue with access to women’s single sex spaces. And an issue that relates to the superior strength of biological males over biological females. The solution is a third space but that is rejected by many trans women.

I also think that the conflation of trans people as a single homogeneous population is problematic. The needs of TW and TM are different, and TM don’t as a general population present a threat to biological women. At the same time, several TW don’t pose a threat because they do not wish to harm women, but some TW do as their identities as TW is partly about gratification and ‘passing’ and anyone not playing along is vulnerable to aggression.

And then you have the significant population of violent men who later identify as female to play the prison system. The court reporting alone is problematic as using female identities and pronouns in the reporting desensitises the population and spreads misinformation that female perpetrators of violent crime are on the increase.