Page 25 | Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

ThisPinkWyvern · 2025-02-22T02:04:15+00:00

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified. The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison. In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls. When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

peanutbuttertoasty · 22/02/2025 10:38

’Transitioning’ is a journey with no destination. You will never arrive at the place you think you will, I.e. the opposite sex. You are what you are. You may be chopped meat by the time you’ve finished but you’ll still be a male. It’s sad and damaging that people believe otherwise.

TeenLifeMum · 22/02/2025 10:36

In 100 years time, scientists can look at a human bone and establish the sex of that person. Being make or female biologically is far deeper than penis or vagina. Gender is about feelings but sex is not. Denying biological science is like being a flat earther. That doesn’t mean a biological woman can’t say they feel happier living as a male and vice versa, but those feelings don’t alter the cells in the body so the science remains.

Helleofabore · 22/02/2025 10:36

Alucard55 · 22/02/2025 10:30

I don't think Daisymae is saying that they think that as Alexis Blake is much more rational that the usual trans crowd he should be accepted into female spaces. I personally don't think that any man regardless of how he presents or what lady certificate he has should be allowed into any female only space. That includes AB. I am however prepared to listen to what AB has to say as he does put forward arguments, that although you may disagree with, you can engage with.

I saw a man who identified as not a man on Piers Morgan the other day and apart from making no sense at all he just shouted over everyone else and at one point said disabled athletes should compete alongside able bodied athletes. That to me is the difference.

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I agree that if we have time, we should listen to all voices. I am all for it because it helps us to build our depth of understanding.

I am happy to read about what specifically Blake says that has not been said before. The question is, is there anything that Blake is saying that has not been said before?

Helleofabore · 22/02/2025 10:32

spannasaurus · 22/02/2025 10:27

5 or 6 years ago this thread would have been deleted or moved to FWR

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Even 6 days ago!

But now, if the OP complains to MNHQ that they didn't ask for the thread to be moved, the OP might get it moved back.

There is still so many MN posters who will demand that the AIBU board be curated to suit their personal preferences and their own lack of impulse control. What is remarkable though, spanna and borntobequiet is just how many posters are posting fact based replies to the OP and some other poster's contributions. It is wonderful to see that so many posters now feel they have the confidence to reply to the OP and reply without worrying about being deleted, being accused of being transphobic relentlessly and falsely.

The past 5-6 years has seen this change.

Pussycat22 · 22/02/2025 10:32

Sodthesystem · 22/02/2025 02:32

Many women have internalised mysoginy, mental health issues and history of abuse that makes them want to distance themselves from their biological sex. You help them through therapy. Not by telling them that yes, they are men.

The sky is not green, no matter how many times you say it. Sorry.

Sometimes the truth is painful. But reality is reality. You don't help anyone by lying to them.

XX XY end of.

JandamiHash · 22/02/2025 10:31

I do wonder why these people absolutely need people to affirm their delusion otherwise they’re being traumatised, assaulted and are unsafe - when else do adults so much demand other people agree with them on the threat of being called nasty names? Do you know what it sounds like? It sounds like…what men do

Alucard55 · 22/02/2025 10:30

ILikeDungs · 22/02/2025 10:09

Daisymae to understand more clearly how this person is manipulating you to get what he wants, change the pronouns to align with reality.

She calls herself a guest in a woman’s space- saying although she uses woman’s toilets, she does everything to ensure no one is uncomfortable and that her ‘comfort’ should never overtake that of a biological woman in their space.

becomes:

He calls himself a guest in a woman’s space- saying although he uses woman’s toilets, he does everything to ensure no one is uncomfortable and that his ‘comfort’ should never overtake that of a biological woman in their space.

Creepy, right? Don't fall for it. He is a man and he does not belong in women's spaces.

I don't think Daisymae is saying that they think that as Alexis Blake is much more rational that the usual trans crowd he should be accepted into female spaces. I personally don't think that any man regardless of how he presents or what lady certificate he has should be allowed into any female only space. That includes AB. I am however prepared to listen to what AB has to say as he does put forward arguments, that although you may disagree with, you can engage with.

I saw a man who identified as not a man on Piers Morgan the other day and apart from making no sense at all he just shouted over everyone else and at one point said disabled athletes should compete alongside able bodied athletes. That to me is the difference.

SinnerBoy · 22/02/2025 10:27

Well, well, well. 95% YABU is quite the ratio, isn't it?

A man without a penis is a man. A man without a penis and most assuredly has not changed sex.

JandamiHash · 22/02/2025 10:27

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 03:40

"Also, millions in the US?"

https://usafacts.org/articles/what-percentage-of-the-us-population-is-transgender/

It is estimated that thr population of transgender individuals in the US is about 1% of the population. This equates to about 2. 3 million people.

Thank god you used a reputable source 🤣

spannasaurus · 22/02/2025 10:27

borntobequiet · 22/02/2025 10:21

Well, I know that. I’m not dim. I was being sarcastic.

I notice that the vote is 95% YABU. I think that, say, five or six years ago, it would have been quite a lot lower than that. It’s down to the sterling (if incoherent) rantings from people like the OP that many eyes have been opened and this idiocy is accurately perceived to be the utter nonsense that it is.

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5 or 6 years ago this thread would have been deleted or moved to FWR

GrouchyKiwi · 22/02/2025 10:24

JandamiHash · 22/02/2025 10:22

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis

The fact the OP defines girls as having lack of a penis” says it all really.

SO misogynistic. It's such a tell.

JandamiHash · 22/02/2025 10:22

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis

The fact the OP defines girls as having lack of a penis” says it all really.

JandamiHash · 22/02/2025 10:22

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 03:08

It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma. It is bring gaslighted about the most fundamental aspect of one's being. Everytime the wrong pronoun is used, everytime a gender designation appears on an identity document that conflicts with an individuals innate experience of themself, everytime the individual has to walk into a changing room, public toilet, or hospital ward that conflicts with their innate experience of themself, every time they are referred to by a given name that conflicts with their innate experience of their self, a transgender person is being gaslit and emotionally abused.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis. Presence of penis = boy, lack of penis =girl. The designation of the sex of an individual on their birth certificate reflects the categorisation of the individual's sex according to this criteria.

If the biological sex of an individual cannot be changed then the results of using the same test to determine the sex of the individual at birth would remain unchanged no matter at what point the criteria was applied during an individual's life. If the same criteria is applied to a post op transgender woman her lack of a penis would mean that her biological sex would be determined to be female not male. Since the Gender Critical Movement's ideology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum- an individual without a penis and outer female genitals is by default designated female. A post op transgender woman is categorised as female therefore using the same criteria that categorised her as male at birth.

It is this simple basic logic that was responsible for the term transsexual being coined - so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'

So a personality then?

Yeah we all have them mate. And nobody has to like or validate yours

borntobequiet · 22/02/2025 10:21

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 22/02/2025 10:14

You can’t join because IT DOESN’T EXIST contrary to what the OP claims.

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Well, I know that. I’m not dim. I was being sarcastic.

I notice that the vote is 95% YABU. I think that, say, five or six years ago, it would have been quite a lot lower than that. It’s down to the sterling (if incoherent) rantings from people like the OP that many eyes have been opened and this idiocy is accurately perceived to be the utter nonsense that it is.

Helleofabore · 22/02/2025 10:20

Daisymae23 · 22/02/2025 09:58

And ultimately yes, I agree with you.

i guess my point is that I have appreciated a more respectful discussion from someone who is not quite frankly mansplaining as I feel a lot of the trans activists are.

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Well yes. Because a group of male people who demand that they get to stay in the female single sex spaces understood that if they appear moderate that a larger % of female people will agree with them and allow them the access they demand. And they demand it, they won't take no for an answer.

Look at how those who support Dr Upton in the NHS Fife court case spoke about Upton. They focused on Upton's needs and thought that Upton while at work, was probably 'moderate'. But anyone listening to Upton's testimony, or reading it (and I suggest you read it if you haven't) can see that when Upton was even mildly rejected by Sandie Peggie leaving the changing room and waiting for Upton to finish, Upton started to collect notes on Sandie because Sandie was non-compliant.

For a while, women thought Brianna Wu was a great ally. But certainly Wu followed the new script of being that ally, until women told Wu that Wu should never be using the female single sex spaces. Then came the 'but I am unsafe in the men's' and then when women still rejected this claim, Wu become abusive.

Hayton is another. Hayton eventually left MN after making posts about how the hierarchy of female power was based on breast size.

You don't have to dig very deeply to find that the male people that seem to be recommended by people as 'being a moderate voice' are still not a moderate voice. They are trying to wheedle their own access into female single sex spaces at the expense of their community and the only real difference that becomes clear over time is that they simply don't shout their abuse. But they still end up abusing the women that reject them.

I have watched this play out over and over and over. We have even had those types of male posters start threads about how they agree that a group of male trans people should be kept out but it always turns out that they will stay using the spaces themselves. But they use the FWR board to trial their arguments to see what reactions they get.

Areolaborealis · 22/02/2025 10:20

Rosie8880 · 22/02/2025 09:37

Thanks for your response. What often is shared when talking about gender is that it is intrinsically linked to biology, and that there are only two biological sexes present in nature, in humans - male & female. That to think otherwise, is unnatural. In nature, biological sex and gender - is not rigid. It can and does change. In humans we also have in biology, intersex - as well as male and female. We have people born with both male and female sex organs. Using this fact, We can see we have at least three genders, based on biology. It’s really challenging to unpick
gender constructs that we have created - it seems to be very upsetting for many and I can understand why. What I find interesting is the rationale based on biology is actually flawed. It isn’t factual. And then what is interesting is where does society go from there - that is the choice of society, something we have choices that connect to values and beliefs. - This is a useful article: www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

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But the overwhelming majority of humans fit into either one of two sex categories which are easily distinguishable at birth. Yes, there are some rare instances where the body doesn't develop as expected but this is considered a disorder and is treated as such.

Elsewhere in nature, if it was as common for species to change development path as you claim then we would have chaos. Farming works precisely because its possible to predict how a particular plant or animal will develop from its genetic material.

JandamiHash · 22/02/2025 10:17

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 03:08

It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma. It is bring gaslighted about the most fundamental aspect of one's being. Everytime the wrong pronoun is used, everytime a gender designation appears on an identity document that conflicts with an individuals innate experience of themself, everytime the individual has to walk into a changing room, public toilet, or hospital ward that conflicts with their innate experience of themself, every time they are referred to by a given name that conflicts with their innate experience of their self, a transgender person is being gaslit and emotionally abused.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis. Presence of penis = boy, lack of penis =girl. The designation of the sex of an individual on their birth certificate reflects the categorisation of the individual's sex according to this criteria.

If the biological sex of an individual cannot be changed then the results of using the same test to determine the sex of the individual at birth would remain unchanged no matter at what point the criteria was applied during an individual's life. If the same criteria is applied to a post op transgender woman her lack of a penis would mean that her biological sex would be determined to be female not male. Since the Gender Critical Movement's ideology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum- an individual without a penis and outer female genitals is by default designated female. A post op transgender woman is categorised as female therefore using the same criteria that categorised her as male at birth.

It is this simple basic logic that was responsible for the term transsexual being coined - so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

Once again only toddlers get to have tantrums if people don’t validate their every move.

Perhaps if people’s “lived experience” wasn’t steeped in regression, sexism and homophobia then maybe people wouldn’t “deny” it so much - it NOBODY has the right to have everyone around them validate their beliefs. Nobody. This is entirely down the trans people to manage their own identity not have everyone around them do it for them. It’s a VERY bad way of living to always rely on others when it comes to feelings

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 22/02/2025 10:14

borntobequiet · 22/02/2025 10:11

Where is this Gender Critical Movement? How can I join it?

Whatever you’re on about, it’s a fact that transmen are biological women.

You can’t join because IT DOESN’T EXIST contrary to what the OP claims.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 22/02/2025 10:11

Iol I can’t even be arsed to pick apart that level of emotional hyperbole utter nonsense! How did I know that they’d start with “but intersex” further down (they always do) I mean it’s embarrassing really! Ppl can change sex you say? Yeah come back when you can explan how the pelvis on the left magically becomes the one on the right

Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

borntobequiet · 22/02/2025 10:11

Where is this Gender Critical Movement? How can I join it?

Whatever you’re on about, it’s a fact that transmen are biological women.

ILikeDungs · 22/02/2025 10:09

Daisymae to understand more clearly how this person is manipulating you to get what he wants, change the pronouns to align with reality.

She calls herself a guest in a woman’s space- saying although she uses woman’s toilets, she does everything to ensure no one is uncomfortable and that her ‘comfort’ should never overtake that of a biological woman in their space.

becomes:

He calls himself a guest in a woman’s space- saying although he uses woman’s toilets, he does everything to ensure no one is uncomfortable and that his ‘comfort’ should never overtake that of a biological woman in their space.

Creepy, right? Don't fall for it. He is a man and he does not belong in women's spaces.

user2848502016 · 22/02/2025 10:08

SpidersAreShitheads · 22/02/2025 03:23

Trump is a cunt.
Humans can't change sex. Transwomen are men, transmen are women.
Everyone deserves to be safe, without infringing on the safety of others.

This 100% 👏

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 22/02/2025 10:07

You determine sex by chromosomes not by the presence of a penis. Obviously it's an easy way to tell when a baby is born.

bridgetreilly · 22/02/2025 10:07

Oh, OP, you so funny!

Sunnysideup4eva · 22/02/2025 10:07

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 03:08

It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma. It is bring gaslighted about the most fundamental aspect of one's being. Everytime the wrong pronoun is used, everytime a gender designation appears on an identity document that conflicts with an individuals innate experience of themself, everytime the individual has to walk into a changing room, public toilet, or hospital ward that conflicts with their innate experience of themself, every time they are referred to by a given name that conflicts with their innate experience of their self, a transgender person is being gaslit and emotionally abused.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis. Presence of penis = boy, lack of penis =girl. The designation of the sex of an individual on their birth certificate reflects the categorisation of the individual's sex according to this criteria.

If the biological sex of an individual cannot be changed then the results of using the same test to determine the sex of the individual at birth would remain unchanged no matter at what point the criteria was applied during an individual's life. If the same criteria is applied to a post op transgender woman her lack of a penis would mean that her biological sex would be determined to be female not male. Since the Gender Critical Movement's ideology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum- an individual without a penis and outer female genitals is by default designated female. A post op transgender woman is categorised as female therefore using the same criteria that categorised her as male at birth.

It is this simple basic logic that was responsible for the term transsexual being coined - so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

No the determination of whether you are male or female is whether you have a Y chromosome.

Male genitalia are just the obvious expression of that.