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Original poster

Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

859 replies

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 02:04

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

OP posts:
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yestheyhavethesamedad · 22/02/2025 12:47

ThisPinkWyvern · 22/02/2025 03:08

It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma. It is bring gaslighted about the most fundamental aspect of one's being. Everytime the wrong pronoun is used, everytime a gender designation appears on an identity document that conflicts with an individuals innate experience of themself, everytime the individual has to walk into a changing room, public toilet, or hospital ward that conflicts with their innate experience of themself, every time they are referred to by a given name that conflicts with their innate experience of their self, a transgender person is being gaslit and emotionally abused.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis. Presence of penis = boy, lack of penis =girl. The designation of the sex of an individual on their birth certificate reflects the categorisation of the individual's sex according to this criteria.

If the biological sex of an individual cannot be changed then the results of using the same test to determine the sex of the individual at birth would remain unchanged no matter at what point the criteria was applied during an individual's life. If the same criteria is applied to a post op transgender woman her lack of a penis would mean that her biological sex would be determined to be female not male. Since the Gender Critical Movement's ideology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum- an individual without a penis and outer female genitals is by default designated female. A post op transgender woman is categorised as female therefore using the same criteria that categorised her as male at birth.

It is this simple basic logic that was responsible for the term transsexual being coined - so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

No it isnt , whether the transwoman has had their penis removed or not doesnt stop them being male , they still followed the male pathway , not all woman can get pregnant or menstruate , BUT they follow the medical pathway as though they can .

No male whether castrated or not can be female , and if the trans movement had spent more time working towards making sure employment/housing rights were in place, instead of eroding womans right to single sex spaces and fairness in sports, then these conversations would not be happening.
And everytime they walk into a female only space , that space becomes mixed sex and woman feel gaslit and emotionally abused.

spannasaurus · 22/02/2025 12:45

And this is the fundamental issue with self I'd

It's a problem even wider than self ID. A man is not required to have any surgery or take any hormones to be issued with a gender recognition certificate which would make him legally female

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2025 12:44

How do you tell the difference between a transwoman and a man wearing a dress in order to access vulnerable women in their safe spaces. Why is a rapist in trousers a danger but a rapist in a skirt and a bit of lippy is safe. Not all men are predators but some are and if the only criteria to being allowed access to women in vulnerable spaces is a £30 skirt from m&s then what on earth do you think they will do. Good men stay out so bad men stand out. It is the principle of safe guarding.

This. And the thing is, there is no difference between a "trans woman" and any other man, whatever he's wearing.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2025 12:43

I get my biology from biologists, not captured lobby groups.

forgotmyusername1 · 22/02/2025 12:42

aModernClassic · 22/02/2025 09:33

Good for him, but that's dangerous. Just because he's a good man, having this mindset and acceptance means women and girls are vulnerable to male predictors.

The basic problem with letting the good ones in, is very simple. We don't know who the good ones are, that's why you need single sex provision.

A young male trans athlete may be nice and not use the girls changing rooms, but he's still on the podium winning all the girls categories.

That young university student, wants to bunk up with the girls, it's okay as he's a good guy, but Jack (now Jackie), wants in too, how do we and the establishment tell "Jackie", that he's not allowed access, even though his fellow male in a dress is allowed in.

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And this is the fundamental issue with self id.

How do you tell the difference between a transwoman and a man wearing a dress in order to access vulnerable women in their safe spaces. Why is a rapist in trousers a danger but a rapist in a skirt and a bit of lippy is safe. Not all men are predators but some are and if the only criteria to being allowed access to women in vulnerable spaces is a £30 skirt from m&s then what on earth do you think they will do. Good men stay out so bad men stand out. It is the principle of safe guarding.

Igneococcus · 22/02/2025 12:42

What is interesting is when understand that there are more than two, male/ female biological genders in humans , this helps understand better how for example, gender isn’t always binary.
Gender can be anything you like because it's made up bollocks, sex is binary.

WillIEverBeOk · 22/02/2025 12:41

Rosie8880 · 22/02/2025 12:39

Hi thanks for the reponse. Please do have a read of intersex in this link too. What is interesting is when understand that there are more than two, male/ female biological genders in humans , this helps understand better how for example, gender isn’t always binary. It is more diverse. What I am also interested in is how we as society treat everyone, including minorities.

www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

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Please stop posting lies, educate yourself. There is only TWO (2) biological sexes. Intersex are either male OR female. They are not a third sex.

Rosie8880 · 22/02/2025 12:41

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 22/02/2025 08:52

Frogs and fish and a lady bear that looked like it had a willy

awesome…..im completely convinced

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Hi. This is also an article about intersex in humans. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2025 12:41

What is interesting is when understand that there are more than two, male/ female biological genders in humans , this helps understand better how for example, gender isn’t always binary. It is more diverse

"Gender" is a social construct based on sex. Sex is binary. There are only two sexes, and humans cannot change from one to the other.

Rosie8880 · 22/02/2025 12:39

Surf2Live · 22/02/2025 08:54

oh ffs

humans are MAMMALS and in mammals sex is one of the true binaries

mammals do not change sex

we are not fish nor amphibians, we are MAMMALS

and sex is biological, encoded into every cell in our bodies, it is no behaviour

"Some species have both male and female characteristics and sexual organs. (As do some humans)"

that is an absolutely extraordinary statement, not backed up in your link

If you think there is an example of a human hermaphrodite then it is on YOU to prove that extraordinary statement

it would be vanishingly rare

and here, again we have another TRA strawman / talking point

bring up examples from other species where sex is different to mammals, pretend it means mammalian sex is some kind of continuum to support trans ideology

the vast vast majority of "trans" people do not have DSDs, they are normal male or female

chromosome testing for DSD is not part of identifying trans people, the only thing used to id trans is their say so

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Hi thanks for the reponse. Please do have a read of intersex in this link too. What is interesting is when understand that there are more than two, male/ female biological genders in humans , this helps understand better how for example, gender isn’t always binary. It is more diverse. What I am also interested in is how we as society treat everyone, including minorities.

www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

Fimofriend · 22/02/2025 12:35

Rosie8880 · 22/02/2025 09:37

Thanks for your response. What often is shared when talking about gender is that it is intrinsically linked to biology, and that there are only two biological sexes present in nature, in humans - male & female. That to think otherwise, is unnatural. In nature, biological sex and gender - is not rigid. It can and does change. In humans we also have in biology, intersex - as well as male and female. We have people born with both male and female sex organs. Using this fact, We can see we have at least three genders, based on biology. It’s really challenging to unpick
gender constructs that we have created - it seems to be very upsetting for many and I can understand why. What I find interesting is the rationale based on biology is actually flawed. It isn’t factual. And then what is interesting is where does society go from there - that is the choice of society, something we have choices that connect to values and beliefs. - This is a useful article: www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

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Nonsense! People's feelings do not change their gender and just because some people have physical mutations it doesn't mean that everyone can claim that their biology is fluid. Just because some people are born with webbed fingers it doesn't mean that sll humans can fo everything that every type of fish can do.

Teapot13 · 22/02/2025 12:33

Most people responding to OP are gender-critical feminists.

Trump is not a gender-critical feminist. He’s a plain, old-fashioned sexist.

Even though I agree with so many things in his executive order—like the focus on sex as opposed to gender, safety of women’s spaces—let me tell you, it gave me no pleasure to read the order. Which I have to interpret and enforce at work—I wasn’t just reading it out of interest.

Most women on here have no animosity towards trans people. We just want our safety and dignity to get equal consideration. Trump does not care about the safety or dignity of women—he just wants to pick on trans people.

The executive order and general anti-trans sentiment is not attributable to gender-critical feminism—no one’s cares about or listens to us! It’s attributable to how crazy trans ideology is to regular people.

OrangeYaGlad · 22/02/2025 12:32

Rosie8880 · 22/02/2025 12:24

thanks for your response. It’s interesting isn’t it, when understand that there are not just two biological genders both in humans and in nature, and the variety that exists. The view I have is that whether one falls into a majority or a minority - we exist as we are. And, following this we should be allowed to exist, peacefully with same dignity, acceptance as those in minorities and majorities.

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No, there are two biological sexes that all humans fall into. Every human who exists or has ever existed has been male or female, even the few that it's not immediately obvious which they are.

The rest is bullshit

OfNoOne · 22/02/2025 12:25

user2848502016 · 22/02/2025 11:23

If someone is experiencing pain, mental agony due to them feeling they are physically the wrong gender - this must be incredibly traumatic. - Yes it must and I am very sympathetic to anyone in mental agony or experiencing trauma. But my opinion is that they should receive sympathetic treatment to accept themselves as they are.

All of us have male and female chromosomes, X & Y. Whats interesting is in nature, gender is not rigid - animals/ species change or flip btw gender - yes this is true, and as a biologist I agree very interesting. However humans as a species don't flip sex so this argument is irrelevant here.

We humans have created a rigid concept of binary gender - which isn’t based on facts. - yes we have and I believe rigid gender stereotypes are indeed harmful and have contributed hugely to the mess we're in currently. Biological sex however is binary and not a "concept" humans have created, but a biological fact.

why can’t we allow others to live their lives in ways they want - I agree as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights and safety of others

it isn’t causing any harm. - it is actually, biological women and girls have been harmed by this,

There seems to be some hysteria about men in changing rooms - I can’t recall prior to a few years ago anyone really getting up in arms about this. - as a woman I find the term hysteria offensive so you might want to consider not using it. Nevertheless women and girls have very valid reasons for being concerned about men in women only spaces. A few years ago men weren't generally allowed to use women's changing rooms so no it wasn't an issue. However if you go further back to the 1970s feminists fought very hard to get single sex spaces for women.

I struggle with why all of a sudden this issue has become to talked about. - it's not all of a sudden, it's been talked about for years, but women were not listened to and labelled terfs and bigots, so many were too intimidated to speak out.

It’s strange and has a whiff of scapegoating and finding ways to create “otherness” - really? Isn't the concept of "non binary" creating otherness? The CG movement is actually doing the opposite of creating otherness!

rather than wanting to embrace diversity and live together peacefully - I'm sure most women would love to live together peacefully, shame there are so many violent and abusive men around

accepting others as they want to be accepted - most people do, it's just that increasing numbers of people draw the line at accepting that humans can change biological sex

"All of us have male and female chromosomes, X & Y."

Again, no, we don't. Because some of us are biologically women. With X chromosomes.

Rosie8880 · 22/02/2025 12:24

Areolaborealis · 22/02/2025 10:20

But the overwhelming majority of humans fit into either one of two sex categories which are easily distinguishable at birth. Yes, there are some rare instances where the body doesn't develop as expected but this is considered a disorder and is treated as such.

Elsewhere in nature, if it was as common for species to change development path as you claim then we would have chaos. Farming works precisely because its possible to predict how a particular plant or animal will develop from its genetic material.

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thanks for your response. It’s interesting isn’t it, when understand that there are not just two biological genders both in humans and in nature, and the variety that exists. The view I have is that whether one falls into a majority or a minority - we exist as we are. And, following this we should be allowed to exist, peacefully with same dignity, acceptance as those in minorities and majorities.

borntobequiet · 22/02/2025 12:13

You’re sounding more unhinged with every post. And go ahead, tell me how that’s discriminating against hinges, or something.

TBF, equating ‘unhinged’ with ‘batshit’ makes a case for the value of hinges.

Daisymae23 · 22/02/2025 12:10

WillIEverBeOk · 22/02/2025 11:55

Yep, even trans people themselves say they know they don't actually change sex, so the OP is either trolling or deeply, deeply mentally ill..

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Some do. Lily Tino is one of the most viewed team activists. Honestly her content is incredibly problematic. A lot is even aimed at small children (one where she dresses as Ms Rachel) or for parents to involve their small children in deciding what gender they are by having a gender reveal party after they are born.

Sortumn · 22/02/2025 12:09

Trans men are women. Whether people join in with the polite pretence or not will depend on so many factors, including their own lived experience.

spannasaurus · 22/02/2025 12:04

WillIEverBeOk · 22/02/2025 11:55

Yep, even trans people themselves say they know they don't actually change sex, so the OP is either trolling or deeply, deeply mentally ill..

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I'm not so sure about that. We've had a qualified NHS male doctor state under oath at a tribunal that they are a biological female. Also said that sex is a nebulous dog whistle.

user2848502016 · 22/02/2025 11:59

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 22/02/2025 09:49

Honestly, with Alexis Blake if I saw her in a woman’s toilet I wouldn’t have a problem at all. Toilets have cubicles. But that is my feelings and it might make someone else uncomfortable and therefore feel third spaces are important.

what I would have a problem with is a biological male in a female changing room. That would make me incredibly uncomfortable abd that’s where I feel the focus should be on.

The problem is that you can't just open up female spaces to the men you feel comfortable with. You allow in the bad guys too. I would go so far as to say that even your pet transwoman is the kind of man who clearly is comfortable violating female boundaries and is not one of the good guys.

I agree, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with Alexis Blake in a ladies toilet either but that's me, a lot of women would feel uncomfortable and that's not wrong or offensive. There are a lot of trans women who would make me extremely uncomfortable if I saw them in a ladies toilet.
A lot of "cis" men aren't a threat to women either (my DH for example) but that doesn't mean they can enter women only spaces just because they know they don't mean any harm.
Women only spaces were created because women are at risk of violence by some men, and that's why men shouldn't be allowed in full stop.

Nanny0gg · 22/02/2025 11:59

@user2848502016 - As a complete non-biologist, which animals can change/flip their genders?

WillIEverBeOk · 22/02/2025 11:55

Mightymoog · 22/02/2025 11:21

What quite interests me is whether people like the Op genuinely bellieve they can change sex.
Unless you are very mentall unwell surely nobody suffers that level of delusion.
So is it just a political thing?

Yep, even trans people themselves say they know they don't actually change sex, so the OP is either trolling or deeply, deeply mentally ill..

ditalini · 22/02/2025 11:51

Helleofabore · 22/02/2025 11:35

Don’t forget… sometime in the future we will definitely be able to do this so we should just accept it as being true.

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Oh yes! Chinese scientists have achieved pregnancy in a male rat (completely in character, the TRA ignores the role of the female rat that the male rat was sewn to), therefore I can change sex

I should have probably added something about sex being colonialist and deeply racist (therefore I can change sex).

WillIEverBeOk · 22/02/2025 11:47

Daisymae23 · 22/02/2025 09:14

Honestly, with Alexis Blake if I saw her in a woman’s toilet I wouldn’t have a problem at all. Toilets have cubicles. But that is my feelings and it might make someone else uncomfortable and therefore feel third spaces are important.

i actually feel I might feel uncomfortable with a biological female who is a trans man in a female toilet.

what I would have a problem with is a biological male in a female changing room. That would make me incredibly uncomfortable abd that’s where I feel the focus should be on.

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Male toilets have cubicles too. He could go there, instead of upsetting a woman that is fleeing a man, rinsing out a mooncup, washing blood-stained underwear at the sink, etc etc.

YouDeserveBetterSoAskForIt · 22/02/2025 11:35

JandamiHash · 22/02/2025 02:12

Women who “identify as men” are welcome into women’s spaces because they’re still women and don’t pose the threat of that men do, because the they’re not men.

See, that was easy wasn’t it?

This.
So simple.

People over complicate it to muddy the waters because their arguments have no validity and they know it.