Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

I do agree yes. But no one is going to stop anyone walking into any toilet.

doubt women who look like men would be “welcome” in the women’s toilets or changing rooms despite what people are saying .

So you do agree that men who look like men aren't welcome, then, I guess? Good-o, at least we can agree on that.

That's remarkable since, even if they were Dutch they would be in the top 99.965 centile for height.

But obviously some women do fall into that centile and I see that it would be a plus if you want to pass as male, and a minus if you wanted to be recognised as female in some situations.

Edge cases make very poor law though.

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

I met a trans teenager who was 6 ft 4 and looked exactly like a teenage boy. It’s fine to think they would be welcome in theory. In practice and in reality they wouldn’t.

So what?

If asked if that person was a female and in the correct space, what would they reply? We have always been asked if we are in the correct toilet, I was asked a lot as a child. Yes, it was uncomfortable to be asked, but looking back, I realise that people were protecting the female single sex spaces.

We have had female people who have not taken testosterone but choose to present as male looking as possible tell us that they now thank other female people for asking. Because they recognise that this is other female people attempting to ensure that the spaces are kept as safe as they can make them at the moment.

By 'trans men' who are you referring to? Those who take testosterone currently, or any female who says they have a gender identity?

Either way, voices change but don't really 'pass' and if asked they can reply that they are female.

But as I and others have pointed out, those female people seem to understand the issue and they seek other arrangements. Plus, I would suspect it would be very difficult, if even possible, to legally exclude them from female single sex spaces.

So, what is your point that you keep doubling down on? What is your proposed solution?

I met a trans teenager who was 6 ft 4 and looked exactly like a teenage boy. It’s fine to think they would be welcome in theory. In practice and in reality they wouldn’t.

What I mean is that it’s nonsensical that women who look like men would be welcome in female spaces. Sorry but they wouldn’t. Not all trans men are tiny and weird looking

Only by your belief.

Biology : XY cannot ever be an XX. {Or vice versa}

I met a trans teenager who was 6 ft 4 and looked exactly like a teenage boy. It’s fine to think they would be welcome in theory. In practice and in reality they wouldn’t.

Transmen are women who identify as men.

Transwomen are men who identify as
women

Only by your belief.

Biology : XY cannot ever be an XX. {Or vice versa}

People make lots of assumptions based on photos, but real life experiences are totally different.

Gait, body language, stance, speech, even pheromones all contribute to our evaluation of whether someone is male or female. Almost no one 'passes' in real life.

Regardless, this is all fine if there's trust in the social contact. Unfortunately men who do not respect women's boundaries have made it clear that they aren't abiding by that anymore. It is sad if the ultimate victims of this are 'transmen', but that sure isn't women's fault.

What I mean is that it’s nonsensical that women who look like men would be welcome in female spaces. Sorry but they wouldn’t. Not all trans men are tiny and weird looking

Transmen ARE women.

Comments about toilets are not 'nonsensical' despite what you think. They really are not and you telling women that they are writing nonsense when they are stating their boundaries.

You have a point about a female who has taken testosterone entering a female single sex space though as there will be some female people confused by their presence. ie. Those female people who cannot read the body cues that remain untouched by testosterone.

What we know from discussing this with female people who have taken testosterone is that they are fully aware that their presence may cause other female people distress. So they, even now, will find alternative solutions for their needs. They go far out of their way to do this and they plan ahead.

While theoretically, those female people taking testosterone should still be welcome to use the female single sex spaces, it may not work for all other female people. There is an acknowledgment that those female people have taken the decision to modify their appearance through testosterone treatments.

If male people had respected the needs of female people from the outset and not forced access for some male people into female single sex spaces, it might have been a different outcome by now for those female people. However, those male people did force access.

The point though is that no laws would be workable to exclude those female people who take testosterone from female single sex spaces. While there can be laws to exclude all male people above the age of needing a female parent or carer to be with them from single sex spaces. One can be legalised, but excluding female people from female single sex spaces is not really a possibility in any case.