Non binary

Yes language changes, but changes need be beneficial to society to last long term.

Cis is a term that makes no sense to the vast majority. Why would women end up as a sub category in the category of women?

It's only by inviting men into a definition of women that you need the term cis. Kick men out of the category of women and everything is much more straightforward and clear for all.

The word might be in the dictionary but like many other words that appear in the dictionary, it is not in common use. I never hear it in my day to day life- most people over the age of about 35 would have no idea what it means. A specific group of people would like it if we all used the word but I’m not sure it’s ever going to really catch on. If we don’t actually need a particular word, it doesn’t get used. And most people don’t have any need to use ‘cis’ because we all know what ‘man’ and ‘woman’ mean.

Fair enough. There are loads of words I wouldn't use to describe myself. Totally get that.

It’s made up nonsense which has spread by social contagion.

Cis is a word that describes a concept I don't believe in, so I have no need to use it, just as I generally have no use for the word 'transubstantiation' unless I want to say 'I don't believe in transubstantiation'.

I reject the concept 'cis' because it is nonsense. I will never describe myself as a cis woman.

But language changes.
Gay men who dressed as women used to be called Mollies.
Dandies were effeminate men aside from their sexuality.
Radcliffe Hall called herself an invert due to gender representation and sexuality.

We can't freeze language into a form that we are acceptable with. Language change is the norm. We can resist but it'll happen anyway. Cis is in the dictionary. It's a word.

Can you explain what makes you fit in the "cis" box with some men but not some women?

You sound like the ideal candidate for answering the question. "I just can’t get my head round not feeling youre either. Can anyone please put it in simple terms for me."

People have decided not to conform to rigid gender stereotypes for years! I don't see the need to have to call yourself 'non-binary' or use 'they/them' to do this...

I have short hair, have never married and I have no interest in the dress/heels/heavy make-up look and I have dated men and women in my younger years.

I am still very much a woman, just one who does no longer give a damn about what patriarchal societies say about how I should look like or how I should behave.

I think needing to put labels on everything and policing everyone to use them is not exactly what freedom looks like...

I'll start an ideology, tell people I'm now made of invisible cells just because I think it. Everyone must completely not see me. Those who do say they see me will be corrected by those who say they cannot, even though we all know it's impossible for me to change my cells to this extent.
That's what the T and followers are in effect asking us to believe. It's why words like trans and cis make no sense. I could pick two words, blor and blar and apply them to my situation and they'd make as much sense.

once you use the random string of meaningless letters [c.i.s.] you abandon all logic and sense.

Non-binary is not a medical term. they are either a male or female - counselling will help deal with their limitations

I mean, from my point of view it’s perhaps a useful thing to say on a dating show, because it would immediately eliminate the man who described himself that way from my dating pool 🤷‍♀️. (There aren’t any women in my dating pool). I am only attracted to men (as in sex not gender) and find men who want to be seen as feminine or as not-masculine unsexy.

Saying no to Ladydick and mangina
🤷‍♀️

what has being gay got to do with the word 'non-binary'?

We are all, to a certain degree, "non-binary". I, for example, hate football, rugby, beer, have no interest in cars and many other male gender stereotype stuff so I must be a woman. On the flip side of that I love motorbikes, paintballing, have no interest in fashion, don't wear make-up, never played with dolls and couldn't give a fat rat's crack about many other things that are deemed as "things women/girls love" so, according to some, I must be a man. IMO the term "non-binary" is just nonsense as it just means the person who declares themselves as such is the same as everybody else who doesn't conform to what is deemed as "acceptable" based on that person's sex.

Is this your first day on Mumsnet?

This makes complete sense, thank you. It was one of those things I kept going over in my head!

There is research into men been able to support an uterine organ transplant the same as a woman
And the only reason for that is with a aim to have a male carry a baby to term

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/gynecology-obstetrics/specialty-areas/uterine-transplant

So I am sure if there was male who fell into the research paramaters his medical history would be the basis of a valuable research paper.

Taken from the LGBT website: Because non-binary includes anyone that doesn’t fit the traditional narrative of male or female, non-binary communities are incredibly diverse. Non-binary people may identify as both male and female or neither male nor female. They may feel their gender is fluid can change and fluctuate or perhaps they permanently don’t identify with one particular gender. The range of language and labels used within non-binary communities means that non-binary has become an inclusive umbrella term. Some examples of terms commonly used by non-binary people.

Unfortunately the site does not go into the what the traditional narrative of male or female, which is the problem. It is this insistence that anyone who falls outside the traditional narrative (hair, makeup, girly clothes) must be unsure of their gender which is just not true.

So what is the traditional narrative of male/female - women in particular have felt times have moved on and have proved over many years that the traditional norms have moved along.

Trans is what an individual is more extreme, they wish to change sex to some to extent, which is immutable.

In answer to your question, it boils down to the difference between propwr
nouns (in this, a person’s name) and pronouns.

A person owns their own name, and they can change it, spell it how they like, pronounce it how they like.

Pronouns are part of language which belongs to all, not to individuals to chop and change the meaning of if they feel like it. The 3rd person singular pronoun for someone female is she, for someone male he, and for someone who’s sex is unknown they.

Therefore there is no such thing as preferred pronouns just as there’s no such thing as preferred adjectives. Imagine if someone short, fat and middle aged insisted their preferred adjectives were tall, slim and young. It’s exactly the same thing.

Yes, I'm not aware that anyone has ever carried an IVF baby to term with this condition. It would seem highly unlikely because of the hormone profile, as you say.

And pregnancy is a whole body function.

So the IVF would be cutting into the body to attempt to inplant a baby into a non functioning body part in biological system with hormones levels etc designed to create sperm.

This is, I believe, technically possible. But there have been only a handful of known cases of this in history, so it would be very, um, opportune, if the poster knew someone with this precise disorder.

The person in question is male as they produce small gametes not large ones. A male with a very complex and exceedingly rare DSD.

This is totally irrelevant to the wider gender identity conversation

The too stupid to understand trope.

So its irrational women
And as the silly women lack understanding they must end up fearful

My bingo card near full

Or women with lived experience (al a bingo ) who understand that non binary is rigidly forcing society into boxes and women as a group always loose out when we are forced into Barbie or Stepford Wives mode.
Most adults have been around long enough to watch children grow and throw tantrums as they realise that they cant force others to comply to their will.
And lots of people cant be arsed getting involved in someone elses Faith. Worship away (even in public) but dont demand aplause or forced participation.