Nurseries cannot charge extra to access free hours: updated guidance

No one is saying you shouldn't have to pay for those things or provide them if your child needs them. £22 PER DAY top up is way more than those things are costing thr nursery though, and many nurseries are charging it even if you provide your own nappies and packed lunch!

Im pretty sure this was always the rule. Have they now said it will be enforced more strictly?

My child’s nursery is quite cheap for the area and it is totally brilliant. They write really apologetically each year that they have to increase fees, and we just want them to increase the fees massively to make sure they don’t have to close. Waiting lists for alternative nurseries are about a year around here.

Another win for the government who are enforcing this.

Unless she had a chain of nurseries or no rent or business rates or staff to
pay - I don’t know how this is possible (unless it was hundreds per hour)

Which will be far worse for low income parents. If they call it food or nappies etc rather than a vague term then UC will not pay this part. That will lead to parents either struggling financially or a two tier system where children of wealthier parents have a hot meal cooked on site and the other children have a pack lunch.

The legal minimums for things like pay and staffing ratios literally don’t stack up for someone to be a millionaire from running one nursery.

Ours have gone up 14 percent this year alone. They were the highest in the area prior to the increase. Now they're significantly more. I worked out you could send your kid to the nearest very sought after independant school for over 3k less than you can send them to nursery 5 days a week.

It is not enough.

My childminder just subtracts the total funding amount she gets for us from our bill, so I know exactly what the council give her per hour.

She isn't "allowed" to do that.

Which is a shame, as it is the simplest, most logical, and most transparent way for the Gmnt subsidy to work.

This makes very little sense. I don’t know how all nurseries do it because I only have experience in the setting my DD goes to (full private day nursery in Wales). A full day is £70 but for those age 3 and over with funded hours, it’s £11 per day. It’s a HUGE saving compared to full fees. Why would you not pay a small fee for consumables to ensure your child has a place at the childcare setting you’ve chosen? I think you can even do the tax free childcare on the top up fee as well, making it even cheaper. I don’t get the logic of trying to enforce this and those parents who complain!

Hmmm. My son's old nursery owner was absolutely raking it in, then pleading poverty re why parents had to pay huge top up fees. She was a millionaire from the profits though. I can't say that's happening at all nurseries, but it was a gold mine for her. The money was going somewhere...

The funded hours scheme sounds great and is a vote winner but it is grinding the EY into dust with nurseries closing around us left right and centre.

It is almost impossible to make a profit.

I mean ours went up by 7% last year and seems same is happening again! But then minimum wage and NI has gone up as will the business rates this year! It’s all just not sustainable is it !! I think if the funding was even for 52 weeks rather than 38 that would be a good start ! Like most people need childcare 52 weeks a year right 🤪

I think you're being naive about actual operating costs - it's not justva case of £15 an hour. NI and pension contributions, management costs, insurance, rent or mortgage, business rates....and profit. Nurseries are not being run as charities (for the most part).

Free hours is a joke imo. It's never worked. It's put day cares out of business and reduced childminders who don't want the hassle.

I'm not seriously going to do it. Though I am at the point of disagreeing alot with the way the nursery are managing cost increases lately. Their fees are becoming unsustainable and are significantly above local market rates. We only have 6 months left so will suck it up till then. I don't expect them to be a functioning business within 5 years the way they're going.

Yes but understand they'll just find another way. Either restricting hours or putting up other fees/ make it difficult for you.

No it was £5.62 per hour for 3 and 4 year olds (where the ratio is usually 8 children per adult, so pretty sure £40+ per hour should cover the staffing etc!! And £7.95 for 2 Yr old funding per child per hour. Childcare providers love to tell everyone the money is nothing, it's not.

Disagree, parents should have the right to choose the childcare for their child. I choose to pay more for a nursery with good quality new facilities, a large garden, a free flow space etc.
I don’t want the limited provisions available at a state school nursery.

But that's not what the DFE statutory guidance says.

You can - but they can just make it more difficult for you. Only accept full time children / only spread the hours over 5 days but not have sessions as an option you must do full days
most private nurseries only offer full days

@Completelyjo not according to our local authority- that's the wording in the contract we sign as a private business.

It’s not supposed to be free at the point of access. Childcare providers are private businesses, they don’t have to operate at a loss. It’s fair enough for them to not accept someone who is only going to use the ‘free hours’ and pay nothing additional because the funding doesn’t cover their rate.

And i can refuse to pay the sustainability charge? I guess also for older children who are potty trained they shouldn't charge for nappies and wipes in that. They need to itemise it for items we actually receive/use.