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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to drop racist student

260 replies

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 00:36

Aibu to run a mile
Yes YABU teach her to behave
YaNBU - run away and find new clients

I am currently teaching a pensioner to the tune of £320 a month to play piano and violin

She has often referred to German composers as "Krauts" and French composers as "Frogs". She does not know I am part French.

I assumed this might be generational and have gently discouraged it but this weeknsje used the terms "gayboys" when referring to some local salon owners after a breezy conversation about nail polish then went on to remark thay the ABRSM books always seem to "have to have a coloured on the front"

I said "does that matter" and she was visibly shaken and messed up her piece terribly.

I want to end the lessons with her but would like to know whether anyone would consider paying something and appealing to her better nature and having a conversation about appropriate manner in lessons rather than just writing them off.

Yours,

A multinational teacher in turmoil.

OP posts:
5128gap · 21/02/2025 08:33

No adult however old, can possibly have escaped the knowledge that these type of comments are offensive. Besides which, she has the ability to reason so should be able to work out for herself these comments are wrong, if she had decency. She isn't simply making racist remarks because she knows no better, she is making them because she is racist. Up to you if you want to teach her knowing that.

Spirallingdownwards · 21/02/2025 08:32

Personally I would drop her. Her bigotry isn't targeted at just one group. Sorry but it isn't generational now. Those generations have passed unless you are telling me she is about to turn 100. Anyone using such slurs now are doing so knowingly. If these phrases are in their every day parlance it says plenty about them and those they usually associate with.

And yes of course businesses can choose who they do business with in the same way we can ask our pensions advisers not to invest in certain types of businesses, in the same way we can choose to buy ethical products etc. In the same way some professionals won't act for tobacco companies. As employees your employer makes those choices. You can then decide whether to work for that employer.

However as a self employer person or business owner we can choose not to do business with bigots when we are fully aware that is what they are.

Chenecinquantecinq · 21/02/2025 08:31

It's a generational thing and you have already said she is only using non pc language. Gosh some of the sanctimonius responses on here, exactly what is wrong with society now! Throw an elderly person under the bus for being elderly effectively!

Hibernating80 · 21/02/2025 08:29

Early signs of dementia? It's just you mentioned she looked embarrassed.

wotaloadashite · 21/02/2025 08:29

Honestly I wouldn't drop her. I'd continue to take her money (and put the price up a bit) and every single time she says something out of order I'd challenge it. Leaving her in her bigoted silo is never going to change anything. The only way people change is via education and challenge.

BettyButtersBatter · 21/02/2025 08:25

Challenge her? Say, Margeret, you can't say that about gay people these days! You'll upset someone!
Keep it light, see if she changes.

I remember saying coloured describing someone once, and I was pulled up about it. Never said it again

PearlClutzsche · 21/02/2025 08:25

"Kraut" and "Frog" are certainly slurs against German and French people, but how are they racist? French and German aren't races.

I'd call her out on using these terms, OP, but that's all I'd do.

xILikeJamx · 21/02/2025 08:24

Maybe think about what your price would be to put up with it. £500 per month? £750? £1000?

Tell her your prices are unfortunately having to go up and this is the new rate. Win either way

CaptainMyCaptain · 21/02/2025 08:24

FrauPaige · 21/02/2025 01:02

Its a hard no from me.

It's 2025 - if she is 70 now she was born in 1955, and was a 20-something adult in the 1970s. That's pretty recent.

My childhood piano teacher was 70 back in 1985 so would have been a 20-something adult in the 1930s. The delightful old Dame was an excellent teacher but she would refer to weaker pieces as the "n**r in the woodpile", and she also had gollywog dolls.

My classmate friend from the only black family in the village had lessons with her and never experienced an issue or slurs.

That was simply generational language. Quite different. Your student is expressing deeply held bigotry unprompted. Nope

I am 70 and have never used that kind of language in my life neither did my parents born in 1925. People should stop using age as an excuse. Yes, racism was rife in the 70s but it wasn't the dark ages. Not every one was racist and those that found this language acceptable then have had time to move on.

I'd give her one last chance and it she continues drop her. There is no excuse particularly if you are teaching her in your own home.

AngelinaFibres · 21/02/2025 08:22

InvisibilityCloakActivated · 21/02/2025 00:58

I'm sure lots of people will be telling you to quit, but I'm sure those same people put up with/deal with unpleasant people in their day-to-day jobs and aren't quitting their jobs over every single thing they don't agree with. If we all quit every time we didn't agree with something someone did or said, there would be a very long line at the dole queue.

Sadly, the majority of people are not in a position to turn down £320 if that £320 is paying towards their bills or feeding their kids. If it isn't paying for your bills/kids and you don't need the money, or if you have 20 willing replacement students waiting in the wings then that is completely different.

That said, you don't have to accept it silently every time she says something either. Say something if it bothers you.

"Can you stop saying Frogs/Krauts/Gayboys please, I find it offensive" or "Showing your age there, Marjorie, we don't say things like that anymore and haven't for a good few decades" or "why do you keep saying Frogs instead of French?"

All of this. My mum is 86. She would use all these terms. We just say ' You can't say that anymore mum. You need to say XYZ' . We'll all be old one day ( I hope) and the young people will be saying just the same to us.

Fountofwisdom · 21/02/2025 08:22

She’s using ignorant and outdated terms, rather than actually expressing racist views from what you say. I have a couple of lovely aunts in their 70s who use ‘coloured’ all the time and are genuinely baffled as to why it’s offensive. They are not racist, it’s a generational thing. Presumably your student has been around people all her life who used such terms and she’s never been challenged on it.

The best approach, as others have suggested, is just to calmly address the terms when they are used. “Can we just say French please, ‘frog’ isn’t acceptable these days Marjorie”, etc. She’ll probably be mortified and get the message. If people aren’t challenged on their language, they will infer that others concur and assume it’s ok to carry on.

ThisUsernameIsNowTaken · 21/02/2025 08:20

"Kraut" is not "just a nickname". It's a derogatory term used to refer to Germans at a very dark time in history. She might as well call Brahms or today's Germans "Nazis". The book comment was also completely racist. I'd give her one warning before dropping her OP.

GretchenWienersHair · 21/02/2025 08:11

leopardprintanduggs · 21/02/2025 00:49

Has she expressed actual negative feelings towards those groups of people, other than using non-PC terminology? It sounds like she is using old fashioned language that is rooted in racism, rather than speaking offensively about other races and cultures. So, is she actually racist or using language 'of her time'? Perhaps no one has expressly called her out for using those terms and she doesn't recognise how offensive they can actually be. I'd take a first step of writing her an email expressing that while she might not mean to offend, you don't feel comfortable with certain language that in this day and age js racist. See what her reaction her, maybe it will bring her up to speed and if not you can cut your losses.

Complaining about a book having “coloureds” on the front isn’t only using racist language, its having an issue with the existence of people who are not white.

Charismatica · 21/02/2025 08:10

I wouldn’t drop her unless she continued to use offensive language after you made it clear you didn’t like it.

She was clearly upset and hopefully embarrassed when you called out her inappropriate comment so I think she will be receptive to similar strategies. You have an opportunity to help her here.

I would probably make my point in a relatively light hearted way as an entry point to the conversation, but then make it clear I didn’t like it. With mock horror, ‘You can’t say ‘k…t any more (name) people find it offensive!’ Then with a more serious expression, ‘I find it offensive actually.’

saraclara · 21/02/2025 08:09

QuickHare · 21/02/2025 07:58

Not acceptable - yes, If I were you I'd say something! It might be useful to have a written policy you could point all students to - to head this off in future.

(NB threads like this are getting targeted by bad-faith posters, if you were wondering why some of the replies are so weirdly hostile and defensive of the poor old lady who couldn't know better.)

Who's being weirdly hostile?

Some people are simply reminding OP of her own words where she said that this person is otherwise pleasant, empathetic and kind. So she's not irredeemable, and there's no reason for OP to lose the money. All she has to do is express discomfort with the students wording and point out that it's not acceptable these days, and she doesn't want to hear it.

Shouldigoforarunorhavepancakes · 21/02/2025 08:09

OMG!The ageism in this thread!

Anyway, just drop her if you can afford it. Personally, I would feel way more uncomfortable with clients still using X (Twitter) than old language.

HideousKinky · 21/02/2025 08:06

I used to have a cleaner who would make racist remarks. She used to tell me horrible anecdotes about telling people to "get back to where they came from" which I would hear in stunned silence. Of course I stopped employing her.

My DH is Chinese so we are a mixed race family.

It sometimes seemed as if she had not noticed this

elastamum · 21/02/2025 08:03

It's not generational. My parents were born before WW2 and they or their friends would never have used language like that. Maybe time to gently call her out.

KhakiOrca · 21/02/2025 07:59

I would just tell her not to make those comments around you or you will have to let her go. It's definitely a generational thing.

Greyrockin · 21/02/2025 07:59

Just on the word Kraut - there is a music genre called krautrock (aka kosmiche Musik), the term is still used. Not sure if you can get sheet music for any tracks though?

QuickHare · 21/02/2025 07:58

Not acceptable - yes, If I were you I'd say something! It might be useful to have a written policy you could point all students to - to head this off in future.

(NB threads like this are getting targeted by bad-faith posters, if you were wondering why some of the replies are so weirdly hostile and defensive of the poor old lady who couldn't know better.)

saraclara · 21/02/2025 07:56

I think it’s generational. She’s liberal in her attitudes, in that she hasn’t been nasty about the “gayboys” etc. It’s just that she’s using old-fashioned terms that she doesn’t realise are now considered to be offensive.

That. Just gently correct her and get on with the lesson.

I'd she was actively racist and homophobic it would be another matter. But she's not. She's a pleasant person using outdated terms, which can easily be corrected. And it seems that she's open to learning, given her embarrassment.

So you can dump her, in which case she'll carry on doing it, it you can have a quiet chat, and spare others those words.

Mumof2heroes · 21/02/2025 07:54

beenonthebox · 21/02/2025 01:52

Well you can't be all that offended by the terms she is using, if you were then you'd have spared us all the misery of having to read them. To simply tell us they were outdated and racist would have painted an adequate picture.

Really? You HAD to read them did you? Who was forcing you? Wow I've seen it all now! If OP hadn't included quotes everyone would've said they couldn't judge if they didn't know exactly what was said. If reading those terms has offended you then I suggest MN isn't the place for you.

Workhardcryharder · 21/02/2025 07:54

EBearhug · 21/02/2025 01:06

I don't þhink I'd mention her age (why be ageist on top of her behaviour.) But she doesn't sound an entirely lost cause, so I would talk to her about her language use. If she doesn't improve after that, then I'd drop her, telling her why.

Oh come on. Age in this situation is absolutely relevant.

sevenIsNewEight · 21/02/2025 07:52

From the examples mentioned, it doesn't sound she really feels badly about the other groups, she is just naming them in a strange way.
Maybe she just sees you a bit too friendly and feels she doesn't have to adjust her language to the 21st century around you, because she doesn't have to do it "with mates".

You can drop her, or, you can start with telling her it makes you uncomfortable, and see what happens. If you don't like the reaction, you can drop her later and be sure about it.