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AIBU?

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Aibu to drop racist student

260 replies

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 00:36

Aibu to run a mile
Yes YABU teach her to behave
YaNBU - run away and find new clients

I am currently teaching a pensioner to the tune of £320 a month to play piano and violin

She has often referred to German composers as "Krauts" and French composers as "Frogs". She does not know I am part French.

I assumed this might be generational and have gently discouraged it but this weeknsje used the terms "gayboys" when referring to some local salon owners after a breezy conversation about nail polish then went on to remark thay the ABRSM books always seem to "have to have a coloured on the front"

I said "does that matter" and she was visibly shaken and messed up her piece terribly.

I want to end the lessons with her but would like to know whether anyone would consider paying something and appealing to her better nature and having a conversation about appropriate manner in lessons rather than just writing them off.

Yours,

A multinational teacher in turmoil.

OP posts:
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HeadacheEarthquake · 12/03/2025 00:11

Since my light chastisement those weeks ago, despite opportunities - not a single peep, and often good humored attempts to be more open minded...

OP posts:
HeadacheEarthquake · 23/02/2025 01:33

Whotenanny · 21/02/2025 23:11

If calling Debussy a frog is so terrible then you may as well call the police. They'll probably be arrested for being so offensive 🤷

Way to ignore the entire point

OP posts:
EBearhug · 22/02/2025 14:35

Off topic but I just came on to applaud you for getting a thorn character into the word þhink 👏
(though maybe there’s a simple explanation such as you are on an Icelandic keyboard)

I'm afraid it's an even simpler explanation, in that it was late at night, and if you stay on a key for any length of time, it offers accented options, in this case þ instead of T. But I do know what thorn is, and I'm wearing earrings from Iceland today, so perhaps it was subconscious, and not merely a typo...

Whotenanny · 21/02/2025 23:11

If calling Debussy a frog is so terrible then you may as well call the police. They'll probably be arrested for being so offensive 🤷

Whotenanny · 21/02/2025 23:04

It wouldn't bother me - I'd probably just gossip about it with my friends - but if you can either do without the income or can easily get a new student(s) to fill the pay then by all means drop her as a student.

LaineyCee · 21/02/2025 22:44

Totally up to you how you spend your time. If you can afford to only teach pupils who share your attitudes and language, then no reason not to drop her.

Alternatively, you might decide that part of living your values is sharing them with others, even if doing so feels uncomfortable.

MyLimeGuide · 21/02/2025 22:38

thepariscrimefiles · 21/02/2025 18:40

I've looked it up and Wikipedia says:

'The term "coloureds" is currently treated as a neutral description in Southern Africa, classifying people of mixed race ancestry. "Coloured" may be seen as offensive in some other western countries, such as Britain and the United States of America.'

Given that we have no evidence from OP that her racist pupil is South African, it does not exonerate her from using a term that is considered offensive in the UK.

Burn her!!! Like the witches!!😂

thepariscrimefiles · 21/02/2025 18:40

TempestTost · 21/02/2025 18:11

You don't know anything about the Cape Coloured, do you?

I've looked it up and Wikipedia says:

'The term "coloureds" is currently treated as a neutral description in Southern Africa, classifying people of mixed race ancestry. "Coloured" may be seen as offensive in some other western countries, such as Britain and the United States of America.'

Given that we have no evidence from OP that her racist pupil is South African, it does not exonerate her from using a term that is considered offensive in the UK.

TankFlyBossW4lk · 21/02/2025 18:33

I have a sideline where I see clients. I make it an absolute blanket policy that I will not continue to see people who I don't think are nice. I do this because I have to give them my absolute best and it can be very challenging. I don't need the added burden of rudeness.

Honestly, it's just not worth the money seeing this woman. You're not going to change her mind now. She's not young. She'll continue to annoy you. Is she paying loads more than everyone else? Can you get someone else easily?

TempestTost · 21/02/2025 18:18

Mirabai · 21/02/2025 12:54

It’s hard to know if this is naive or disingenuous.

It's accurate. But some honesty about linguistic development never stopped anyone from scolding people, that's for sure.

TempestTost · 21/02/2025 18:11

thepariscrimefiles · 21/02/2025 11:49

By being jailed for 'hurty words', I assume that you really mean being jailed for incitement to violence and murder, such as setting fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

People in the UK also used to use the term 'coloureds' to describe people from a minority ethnic background/heritage. It was racist then and it's racist now.

Also, considering the history of apartheid and the fact that most white South Africans were racist, I'm not sure why you are using the fact that you think that OP's pupil is white South African as a 'get out of jail free' card.

You don't know anything about the Cape Coloured, do you?

MyLimeGuide · 21/02/2025 17:15

Confront her and tell her the racist comments are offensive and she needs to stop if she wants to continue lessons.

CaptainMyCaptain · 21/02/2025 17:08

CurlewKate · 21/02/2025 17:05

@CaptainMyCaptain "
There would still be some people excusing her on the grounds of 'she's old she can't help it, it's what she's used "

I have literally never heard anyone say that about a MIL-unless she actually has dementia!

🤣

To be fair, it's usually a grandparent or uncle.

CurlewKate · 21/02/2025 17:05

@CaptainMyCaptain "
There would still be some people excusing her on the grounds of 'she's old she can't help it, it's what she's used "

I have literally never heard anyone say that about a MIL-unless she actually has dementia!

TempestTost · 21/02/2025 17:01

AnnaAkhmatova · 21/02/2025 11:19

@TempestTost, there is all sorts of interesting stuff about classical music tuition. Essentially it's dying out in the state educational system - which disadvantages anyone from a poorer background-while musicology, the academic study of the classical canon is under attack for being white, elitist etc. University music departments are being shut down and subsidies for opera and symphony orchestras are being cut. It is within this wider context that music teaching materials are being rebranded. 'We are an artform that is under threat, but we are hoping that if we change the artwork a bit that will save us.' The question of whether there's actually an increasing ethnic diversity of students leaning to play classical instruments is an interesting one. But I think a lot comes down to money both in terms of tuition and aso re career prospects.

Yes, I agree with all of this. When I go to music festivals these days white kids are not a majority.

And actually, I do think that to some extent these companies are just looking to increase the representation on the covers which is fine.

But - the OPs student is not wrong in her observation, and it represents a change, probably quite a significant one, since she was younger.

Personally, I think it's an interesting change and I don't know why it would need to be passed over as if it's an embarrassing thing for someone to say. There has been a huge demographic change in parts of the UK in the past 70 years. SHe might well have some interesting observations about that, even if she doesn't use all the "correct" language.

TempestTost · 21/02/2025 16:52

hydriotaphia · 21/02/2025 10:22

Go with your gut, and you shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable at work. However, if you wanted, I do think there is room for the benefit of the doubt.

Frog and Kraut are not on a level with racist slurs imho. I am obviously not going around using these terms or endorsing them, but I think that some older people would consider using language like that regarding England's neighbours to be more in the way of acceptable teasing than anything else. More like how someone from Yorkshire might refer disparagingly to someone from Lancashire than genuine racism.

"Gayboy" yes is obviously homophobic, and I would be shocked to hear it from someone under about 50, but if she is not suggesting any hostility towards gay people, she may have spoken the term out of a genuine lack of understanding about how people are 'supposed' to refer to a sexuality which would have been taboo and sniggered about when she was growing up.

"Coloured" is obviously unacceptable and racist language, BUT it is language which I have heard older people use while grasping for the correct term without any racist intent (perhaps simply not understanding the distinction between "people of colour" and "coloured").

I's only recently that some people decided coloured was a racist word. It was never derogatory or a slur - not even at the informal level of Krauts or Frogs. In fact it replaced "black' around the mid 20th century as the proper word to say, very much led by activists.

Nothing actually happened to turn it into a derogatory word, it's not like something like "retarded" which was used as a rude work and so became associated with an insult. It was always just a descriptive word like "black."

An older person who isn't all that immersed in pop culture - and many really aren't - would have no real reason to suddenly think it might be seen as rude. It's as if someone were to decide next week that "person of colour" is now derogatory, for no real reason. There isn't any real logic to it.

graceinspace999 · 21/02/2025 16:27

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 00:44

It is quite easy for me to build up another 2 hours worth a week I think and I also am a busy celebrant so I would be sad to let her go as she is also a very sympathetic person, in many other ways - therefore I am sort of shocked that despite out good rapport she now feels comfortable to make these comments

Her visible embarrassment at the remark today made me wonder of it's worth talking but I suppose yes life is too precious to risk being around this attitude

Maybe you’ve embarrassed her enough not to repeat her racist remarks?

If not I’d tell her to not say things like that or you’ll have to stop teaching her.

CaptainMyCaptain · 21/02/2025 16:24

CurlewKate · 21/02/2025 16:12

Might be interesting to consider what the response would have been if the OP had said her mother in law routinely used this sort of language!

There would still be some people excusing her on the grounds of 'she's old she can't help it, it's what she's used to'.

CurlewKate · 21/02/2025 16:12

Might be interesting to consider what the response would have been if the OP had said her mother in law routinely used this sort of language!

thepariscrimefiles · 21/02/2025 16:10

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The terms she was using were absolutely not fine a few years ago. They are tone deaf at best and xenophobic/racist at worst.

You say you refer to krauts and frogs all the time to your French friends. Would you use these terms in the workplace if you were dealing with French and German clients or members of the public? I worked in a Russell Group University and using such terms about French and German students would be considered to be gross misconduct. The fact is that no-one would dream of using such terms.

AnnaAkhmatova · 21/02/2025 16:07

And yet the muslim women I know are very represented by how they are presented in Duolingo. Equally the ones I grew up with in inner city Birmingham. It’s your description that I don’t recognise.

Well, I too live in Birmingham. So maybe the city has changed. Or maybe our social circles are different. There are obviously many different Muslim communities, that will vary in terms of class, ethnicity and religious observance. But I have Muslim colleagues and both my - now adult - daughters have had the sorts of issues I describe in terms of their friendships with Birmingham 'Saris'.

I do take the wider point about the reach of music publications. But as a lover of classical music, and as someone who makes music on an amateur level, there is a huge problem about how to keep classical musicmaking - which is now seen as 'elitist' etc alive. There is a similar problem in other artforms - including publishing. There's a real argument for saying a wider range of people will get involved in the arts when there's a secure career structure. And also when there's good arts education in schools with properly trained specialist teachers, and curriculum time, when there are cheap concerts and schools organise trips to those concerts. That's much harder to do than sprinkling a few more photos on the cover of a book. When that structure is/those provisions are lacking, it will basically be the kids who have got rich parents who can subsidise them, who practise/pursue that particular art.

5128gap · 21/02/2025 16:02

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So you know some people who will tolerate the fact you're a bit of a twat? Not sure how that helps the OP.

CaptainMyCaptain · 21/02/2025 15:55

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Old people are old (I'm 70) but they weren't transported directly from the 1970s to the 2020s. They have experienced changing attitudes over 40 or 50 years and should know these terms are not acceptable. If they choose to use them they are choosing to display their racist attitudes quite possibly in the hope others will join in.

Age is not an excuse and I get really cross when posters spout this rubbish that is OK because they're old dears who can't help it.

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 15:54

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Gross. Grow up.

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 21/02/2025 15:53

@SernieBanders "old people are old and the terms she is using were perfectly fine a few years back - in fact to be honest I say krauts and frogs all the time, to my French friends. Also "the gays" to my two bestie gay friends"

I'm old. Those terms have not been acceptable in my adult lifetime. And even if they were, they aren't now.

And yeah-course you do. I bet your black best friend collects gollywogs.