To think that most “self-made” people had way more help than they admit?

And I don't care. He turned that money into more money. If he had gotten a loan for those goods would it then have been seen as okay?

Privilege isn't just getting financial handouts but having guidance and education to help you achieve something on your own. Or having enriching experiences as a child to build your cultural capital so that you can fit in to different social situations as an adult.

I grew up on a council estate, first generation uni and while I've done well for myself I sometimes find myself out of my depth for example at a networking event and people talk about where they go skiing (something I've never done).
It's lots of little things that build up to give you an advantage that you don't even realise you have.

Lords Sugars parents gave him money to buy a load of goods that he then sold. He used those profits to establish a business. But he did get help.

A close friend is from a single parent family, very little money growing up, disabled sibling who will require care for life prevented his mum working more hours or retraining. He’s the same age as me and a multi millionaire.

Yes having money to fall back on helps, but often they’re the people who don’t have enough drive or can do attitude, as they didn’t need it growing up.

Even if they had wealth before idc. Elon musk for example, his dad was a millionaire, but he managed to turn whatever help he had to become a centa-billionaire.

Also lord sugar. Grew up in a council estate but worked his way to become a billionaire.

I started what some might say is a successful business. It took me 10 years to get there and so much failure in the process. And genuine financial hardship. But I always knew that whatever happened I could move back in with my parents (if I lost everything) and that gives you a lot of confidence.

Also having children in 30s I can't imagine taking so many risks and living life like a broke teenager for so long would fly if I had a family while growing my business.

Possible, but very hard. I have earned every penny I have ever had since I was 18. I know I took fewer risks financially than someone with a safety net could.

I’ve done well and I’m well off. My parents never encouraged me to do anything much. My dad didn’t believe women even needed an education. I went to a poor school and left without any qualifications.

My first marriage was awful. He was emotionally and sexually abusive. After we split up I went to college. I actually believed I was pretty dim but I thought I would give it a go.

I passed a string of GCSEs and A levels, all at grade A. I have a diploma, a degree and a post grad in teaching. I’ve done well, all through my own hard graft.

Agree

Disagree, my BIL left school late 80s with no quals, left home at 18, no family support, had a variety of jobs, some skilled, then got a job in IT mid 90s and worked his way up to being manager of a large big 6 (back then) IT dept. Left after y2k and setup as an ISP, his company sold for upwards of £10mill. No family or external support, financially or otherwise. All down to hard work & entrepreneurship.

I think there’s plenty of people who do well from nothing - this just sounds like jealousy

my partner for example came from a council estate , parents divorced, disabled sister, herion addict brother who later died from this - he’s worked hard and made sacrifices and is now a millionaire - and he still works hard 6 days a week

Many people don't recognise their privilege, whether it be sex, race, class, finance, secure housing, supportive family, or even just pure chance.

Often you don't realise how fortunate or unfortunate you are until you speak honestly with others.

Personally my parents were working class but upwardly mobile, and very supportive. Both were literate, our housing was secure and while there were times money was tight we always had a roof over our heads and food on the table. It has taken me a long time to not only recognise the advantages I have and the extent of them but also the disadvantages of being the first generation to go to uni, having no family connections or experiences to draw upon.

I'm in a profession where access has widened massively and it is humbling to hear accounts of colleagues who have fought through growing up in care, homelessness and prejudice but also sobering to hear the experiences of those who got interviews based upon the school they attended or who were able to work in Daddy's business.

This isn't the one I mean, but the gist is the same. It wasn't aimed at the gender divide, but about privilege:

https://icld.se/en/article/study-says-obstacles-to-reach-gender-equality/

Edit: adding link because pic didn't load. Hope this works.

A few years ago Victoria Beckham got some kind of entrepreneur award. It kind of stuck 2 fingers up at people who had actually started a business from scratch, working all hours, for probably no pay, without millions of pounds of brand Beckham to fall back on. I'm pretty sure Trump has a similar riches to more riches story of being self made.

Because being poor sucks and they want something good better, an element of I'm going to show them and if you have nothing to start with it's easier to take a risk .

Many forget how important a safety net is & how it gives you confidence to try something.

There's a comic/cartoon I am struggling to find right now, about obstacles and unfairness. Anyone know the one I mean?

The wealthiest friends I have did have an easier start. Good schools and unis, but what really mattered was being supported to buy a home at a very young age and being funded through post graduate qualifications. They never had to do shite jobs to keep a roof over their head.

Worth a look, if you have not seen it before:

https://digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

Toby Morris, On A Plate - a short story about privilege.

Yes when I trained for counselling - only those who had rich families /partners who could support them financially through the volunteering process to attain accreditation made it . Whereas I had to work so couldn’t get my accreditation . Hence most counsellors are from wealthy backgrounds - whether they acknowledge the help and support they had is a different matter though !
so yeah most folks get some help on one form or another . Not many do it all from scratch on their own as there’s too many obstacles .

If help means starting of with economic or family advantages, than no, I don't think self made people all had them.

My grandfather was a self-made man. His family was working class, his father an alcoholic. There were no grandparents, his father immigrated as an adult, his mum came from a deeply abusive home. He had a difficult home life. He had regular schooling for someone in his position.

He joined the navy as a young man, and educated himself through reading, and became a well known journalist and editor in his city.

Does that count as self-made?

I can think of many stories like that, people who had no advantages and did well. It's always about hard work. I'm not sure why many people are so eager to poo poo that and convince young people that if they don't start off with advantages they are doomed to fail.

Who exactly is ‘pretending’ that?

I think this is a good point too. A lot of context comes from knowing what era people grew up in.

Like the Industrial Revolution offered a lot of new opportunities for people to develop wealth they could never have previously experienced, the 80s was a time of Reagan/Thatcher capitalist economics, that did mean people who didn’t come from wealth were able to establish independently.

I notice it a bit when someone will post a thread worrying about their child who’s leaving school with no GCSE’s, and asking for peoples advice who have been in a similar boat. Comments from people who left school in the 70/80/early 90s with no qualifications and say it didn’t hold them back, don’t really hold the same context, although I do understand they are wanting to offer support.

It was common in the 80s so people have grown up with that narrative. Decreasingly common now.

Very possible & people are so quick to suggest there's more to it as you have but for many it's not the case. Not saying they don't exist, but it's not the easy one-size-fits-all statement you think. I say this as someone married to one (and we've built on it further together) and also friends with them too - people who were raised with none of the above & forged it all for themselves. Interestingly, none of these people make such sweeping statements about other people's success or lack of.