To think that most “self-made” people had way more help than they admit?

There's a wealthy bloke in our local town who's "self made" - his fiancé's dad gave him a job in his successful company when he was 18 and he eventually took over the company when he retired.

Clearly he did a decent job but without that leg up he probably wouldn't be where he is now.

DH and I both earn well into 6 figures in very different roles. Neither of us had any parental financial support, have never received any inheritance and never had any networking benefits.

I’d argue that knowing we were not going to get any support made us both more focused on sorting things out ourselves as we had nobody else to turn to.

There's a great Holly McNish poem about this!

We genuinely worked really hard, sacrificed our time beyond the norm and took risks and did well for ourselves.

I think this is probably key.

And old boyfriend of mine is a self made millionaire.

He went to grammar school and I went to the best comp in the area. He came to my school for 6th form which is where we met. He lived in my local area but in the large country house/estate because his dad was already successful in his own business.

Whilst he won't have struggled, it's not these material things that have helped him the most. What has helped him the most is a deep seated self assurance and confidence.

He is a lovely man. Genuinely, really lovely. No drama in his life. He likes people and they like him. He runs his own business and takes time to volunteer and organise/run community events. Everyone knows him locally. He's just an all round good egg - generous with both his time and money.

He has never had anything that made him doubt his worth or his place in the world. It's always felt like a pretty safe place for him and, when it hasn't been, he's had his family around him to support him emotionally.

It's just his personality and his character. He works really bloody hard, sees and siezes opportunities and, if something goes wrong, gets up, dusts himself off and gets on with it.

I was talking to him last year at a local community event he had organised and he was saying he had to get to bed early because he was up at 5 the following day as he'd volunteered to help at someone else's charity event somewhere across the country. He's always busy, always doing something, has made his own connections and created hos own opportunities. I don't know how he manages it! 😁

Successful people often just have a completely different mindset and approach to life.

(His business is completely different to his dad's. There won't be any contacts he has made though his dad's business that will have helped him in his. They couldn't be more different).

Every successful person? Surely you know that's not true.

@JoyousGreyOrca , we both left school at 16, my husband is a couple of years older than me. We stayed at our parent’s homes paying rent until we moved in together when I was 18. We literally built our wealth from nothing and received no help whatsoever along the way.

@Icanthinkformyselfthanks So you were both totally financially on your own once leaving school with no safety net?

Gosh, my husband didn’t. He’s just really clever and really determined.

Then you are disregarding the weight of centuries of sociological evdience

@ArtfulTealCrab , this question comes up again and again; give me strength.
It’s asked by those with a defeatist attitude in my opinion and that saddens me because you can come from nothing and do very well.
My husband and I came from working class backgrounds our families had no advantages. Our parents gave us nothing, they had nothing to give. We genuinely worked really hard, sacrificed our time beyond the norm and took risks and did well for ourselves. We are retired now and worth well over 5 million, not Lord Sugar territory (who by the way is also self made) but extremely comfortable. We’ve been already this year to Costa Rica our next holiday is an African safari, we’re popping to Spain over the summer followed by a Baltic cruise in September, business class flights of course. We live in a beautiful home next to the Thames and want for nothing.
Stop believing the lie that socialism tells you. You are not chained to the circumstances you were born to. There is no mythical pie that the privileged hoard most of. Go off and work relentlessly, take huge risks, make sacrifices; grow your own pie!

I think privilege comes in more forms than just rich parents, private school, cash handouts.

My dh and I are both the first of our families to go to uni. No financial support to buy a house or anything else; we both paid for our degrees with loans and PT jobs and had to rent whilst we saved our house deposit.

But what we both had was a secure home and lots of support and encouragement to go out into the world and be whatever we wanted to be. Our parents valued education and hard work. I'm far more 'successful' than my cousins whose parents didn't have the same aspirations for them as my parents had for me. That is a privilege, although one that arguably a large chunk of parents can give if they want to.

Dh and I met at uni and have a high income now (over 200k) and send both our kids to private school.

So by OP's definition, yes we are succesful without financial support or a leg up from family. However we benefitted from a great start in life, allbeit not a financially privileged one.

I would say we are the outliers though, most of the families we know that have our income / lifestyle came from richer parents than us and were gifted house deposits etc.

Out kids however will likely get a decent advantage now, with private education, the connections we've made through work and we will probably give them a house deposit when the time comes. So our kids will likely fit OPs stereotype in 15 years time.

I have known several very successful self made business people. Not one of them had any family money or were privately educated. Some of them even dropped out of school with no qualifications. How did they get where they got? Hard work, luck, risk taking, tenacity, and a dash of ruthlessness. None of them are people pleasers, although some are very generous.

No. My dad had the worst childhood, taken from his parents by social services - not in the UK, this is very rare in my home country, he was classed as ‘child of the State’, in an orphanage but will never be adopted or go to a foster family, and the Government is responsible for you. He fought to be allowed to go to University, when he was supposed to do an apprenticeship, graduated in nuclear physics and went on to live a comfortable life, putting my sister and I through private school, holiday house etc.
Zero family money from either side, 100% self made.

“True” self-made success is possible but it doesn’t mean it’s achievable for everyone. Plenty of factors make the difference when it comes to becoming successful, luck being one of them, but attitude to risks, motivation, planning etc…

One of my siblings dreams of being rich but he likely will never be because he absolutely have no motivation to work hard (his dream is to get rich quickly at minimal effort). Could he win the lottery? I guess. Could he beat the odds and find a way to become a millionaire quickly at minimal effort? Potentially but it’s unlikely. And I think someone could give him the key to success and he would still fail at making it happen because he simply lack the drive to do anything that requires any kind of work (he pretty much hasn’t worked a day in his life and is nearing 30!).

So I do strongly believe it takes a certain kind of profile to “make it” with minimal to no help and with quite a lot of luck along the way.

On the other hand, I am absolutely no billionaire but I would say I am financially successful despite a massively desfavorable background (grew up absolutely dirt poor with violence and social services involved, got kicked out while underage, didn’t graduate university as couldn’t afford it, and I am neither white nor straight which can and did definitely impact my career path). I would have never even dare to dream to earn what I earn know when I was little as it was way beyond the realm of possibilities.

Personality wise though I was always a saver/life planner/like a challenge and love to prove people and the world wrong kind of girl, I had my first (not so legal) business at 13 on the internet and even then made a good margin, and then evolved in challenging myself in different areas of life learning new skills along the way, and evolving as I went.

I was always curious never minded to work hard (I have been working since I am 17 and I have never worked less than 60 hours a week and now work much more for example) all that as long as it helped me reach my goals.

I work in close quarters with billionaires (and most aren’t self-made and wouldn’t say they are), and honestly seeing their lives up close doesn’t make me want to reach that next level. In fact quite the opposite.

I am very happy I got to where I am at and feel very proud I even got there based from where I started BUT money doesn’t bring happiness and so finally choosing to re-shape my focus and aim for quality of life (more time for me surrounded by the people I want to spend that time with and way less money) than burn myself to the ground aiming for more “things” and more digits in the bank.

So I personally know for a fact that you can start from nothing and go places, I also do believe NOT everyone can and most definitely not everyone will, I don’t know if being “self-made” should necessarily be something to look up to though. I think being successful is finding happiness irrelevant of your background and advantages/disadvantages. Most billionaires are miserable and a misery to be around too. So I think finding happiness (whatever it looks like) is the real success in life and I think when it comes to that, being born with money or not doesn’t really get you ahead (plenty of poor folks are happier than the richest people on earth).

I think most self-made people did work very hard to make the most of whatever advantages they had, but yes I agree OP, it is useful to know honestly where people started from and where they ended up so you can see what was them vs their starting point.

To me the most valuable information is "what's the optimal route to improve my lot from MY starting position".

If you were born to wealth then maybe it makes sense to focus on learning investing and how to work with family offices and such to grow your fortune. If you're a middle-class kid it probably makes sense to invest in a safe professional career where you are fairly likely to succeed with your nice accent and knowledge of corporate dinner etiquette. If you're born on a sink estate maybe the best path is entrepreneurship or something high-risk, but where your background won't be held against you.

It helps to have lots examples of people from your own starting point so you can see what works and what doesn't. If everyone's pretending they came from the gutter it's a bit blah. Some careers just aren't really realistic without connections!

If you risk take with no safety net, you can end up street homeless.

There is research to show that the single biggest influence on a persons successful life outcome is being raised in a stable, two-parent married household.

It’s possible yes - my father came from a council house background, didn’t inherit a penny, no family help business wise, left school at 15 and became a millionaire. Hard work was a huge part but honestly so was luck (which he’ll admit himself).

I think hard work is key regardless of background. I think success can come from hard work but it doesn’t always.

I realise this might be the exception to the rule but it is possible.

Yes agree that having a fall back helps. It is harder to take risks when you have dependants. In construction industry/development it is notable it is men who predominantly take more risks but you have to be focused. Also the not being stupid with cash as you are building it up. I remember chatting to someone years ago about the waste of money on cars

The other consideration is even if you don't get an actual sum of money it's a lot easier to be entrepreneurial when you know you have rich family to fall back on should it go horribly wrong and you lose everything.

I have always played it safe and taken fewer risks as I know I have zero safety net and would literally lose my house if it didn't work out.

It's a personality type, risk takers are the true successes (but also make up a lot of the failures).

Yes, they might have help, but if you take a bit of help and turn it into something. It's still impressive.
Taking over Dad's successful company? Meh. Successful but not self made.

But those people who have been dealt the shittest hand in life, who build a secure, stable, healthy life for themselves, however humble should consider themselves just as successful as the million pound turnover business man with an average start.

I know a fair few that have not had it because of privilege. Mostly it's been because of the combination of hard work, risk taking and luck. Risk taking combine with luck is a big one I would say

Yes it's possible but there's a big jump to the first rung on the ladder. It's easier if you have some help.

I meant it was a hand up. I am not saying it is not okay. I am saying it is different to someone like me who got not a penny after I left school.