To think that now is the time for powerful voices to speak up…

That’s what I see. Same narcissistic personality. Same sociopathic views. Same old same old. But emboldened and even more transparent in his utter contempt for his fellow humans unless he thinks he can gain something.

More fascist I think.

Are you suggesting I’m in a SM Algorithm loop?

I'm not Trump fan and some of the things he's come out with this week are just odd and stupid. However looking objectively at the Ukraine war. Prior to Trump, there was no end in sight for it. Just a pointless war of attrition that was going one of 2 ways. Ukraine losses get too much and Russia pushes forward. Or red lines eventually get crossed and NATO joins the war. Not sure about most, but I don't fancy any of those 2 options as they both inevitably lead to a wider conflict with Russia.

Europe has needed to pull it's finger out for ages now regarding defence, leaders have been saying this for ages and yes it's a bit unorthodox the way it's come about but it needed to happen.

People in this and other threads are correct in saying that without US support no one else will step up because the fact is they can't afford to. Trump knows this so knows Europe will inevitably agree to any of the ceasefire terms ( hence why leaders haven't come about and said they reject the American peace terms or potential terms with Russia)

Appeasing Putin is dangerous by Trump, but Europe were sleepy in 2014 when we should have dealt with this properly. Yes it's the US that are acting foolish now but we shouldn't have let it get to this stage 10 years ago.

Trump only has America interests at heart. This was not news to anyone and people that are shocked that any of this is happened were naive as this is exactly what most expected and even Trump said he was going to do.

3 positives will come out of this though.

The fighting will stop (hopefully long term)

UK will once again move closer to the EU

EU will buck up it's ideas and sort it's defence out.

Where our future relationship lies with the US is anyone's guess. I'd think it will be come just that a relationship as opposed to a "special relationship"

I think you are being very myopic. The tide was starting to turn on that issue anyway. Aligning yourself with nasty misogynists is an alarmingly naive choice.

Well put.

Same.....

Same.

Women were terrified before as well, @madamweb

Women in prison with male rapists. Parents of children caught up in a dangerous movement encouraging them to cut off healthy body parts and sterilise themselves with poisonous drugs. Women who lived with fentynal addicts on their streets. To say nothing of girls who trained and sacrificed to excel at their sport only to have it snatched away by a boy, to say nothing of the girls who had to wriggle into a tight swimming costume whilst a six foot four bloke watched them.

So look, I may be wrong. I am not even American, and we have a labour government here for the foreseeable future at least. But I was deeply changed by how that all played out; my politics, who I trust, even my own personal relationships have changed when I was told men ARE women if they say they are and to shut up if I don't like it.

And it effected my political alignment and I am not the only one.

It may not be the only thing happening in the world right now or even the most impactful but it had enough of an impact on me to change my world view of a whole host of things that my be informed by the media I consume.

You are showing your self to be in an algorithm loop of a certain kind. It does your credibility no good. There are certain things that if I hear them I know immediately what kind of SM loops people are in and I’m afraid it stops me taking them seriously. I try to keep listening but it’s very hard not to just dismiss it as bunkum.

So has mine!

Any reason why my perfectly rational post has been hidden, @Mumsnet? This is twice this evening that a post I have posted about Trump has been immediately hidden “to be looked at”. Censorship much?

No - it was the daft Tumblr kids who went for the gender stuff. The conspiracists are normally right wing Trumpites. Very different flavours of fact-free nonsense.

It isn’t the mad antivaxxers and moon landing Christian Q-anoners who went for the gender gubbins. They do love Trump though! The clownfish-gender-microaggression types don’t go all in for the pro-gun ivermectin Bitcoin stuff, either: Judith Butler, yes; Tulsi Gabbard, no. Same as the Reform-15 minute-cities types here all hate the genderwoo-types, and vice versa.

However: all of it is gubbins. You don’t have to believe in any of it to be a sane, centrist, informed person. Knowing that men can’t grow a cervix does not mean one then has to throw one’s lot in with Nigel Farage and talk bollocks about immigrants.

I hope this helps!

@rabbitwoman PP on here have asked for your views on Trumps attitude towards women and children and you've not provided any discourse. Not that you're obligated too but you've asked us to persuade you of our argument when you've not persuaded us of yours. Reciprocal remember?

I don't know where you're getting your safeguarding training but mine has always explicitly mentioned grooming gangs alongside county lines!

Well I like to think I do listen to people irl irrespective of their views even if I disagree with them. So I won't be held to blame for people lurching towards the right and it all going horribly wrong.

Do you have any understanding what Trump and chums are doing to womens rights?

Fine come up with other reasons but it's an astonishing take to think Donald "pussy grabber" Trump and Elon "13 babies by 6 different women" Musk are going to be helping women. Most women I know in America are genuinely scared right now

Gracious, dignified and humble?

Not the adjectives I would use to describe Trump...

'Sure I'd be willing to listen to views on people's thoughts on immigration, women's rights and child safeguarding. I'd also hope that goes reciprocal too.'

But it wasn't, @Whimsicalgrape . And now it's too late. Trump got in.

Next time? Let's hope it is reciprocal.

Oh I wouldn't call you Nazi, stupid or a bigot unless I genuinely thought you were those things - in that case I wouldn't mince my words about what I thought. But since I don't know you I can't know these things about you. So no need to be hostile with me.

Sure I'd be willing to listen to views on people's thoughts on immigration, women's rights and child safeguarding. I'd also hope that goes reciprocal too. And when facts brought to light they are not dismissed. Tribalism doesn't get anybody anywhere. Much like the above pp whom keeps quoting "far left" which has irked me more than it should do. Not least because it's tribalistic language used to shout down an opposing view - much like that poster objects to themselves.

'Sure. Now, millions of people can beam fact-free conspiracist nonsense straight into their brains from social media without a shred of the merest fact-checking getting in the way.'

And if this is the case, @neverthelastone ,how do you know which ones have integrity? How do you know you haven't been lied to and manipulated? Because let me tell you, those fact-free conspiracists persuaded millions of you that sterilising gay autistic children was the new civil rights movement of the age! That male rapists should be imprisoned with vulnerable women!

I am angry about that, and what it cost me. Friends, family, time and energy. And it was beamed unchecked straight into the brains of our kids and believed by people I should have been able to trust, so I am looking elsewhere now for political alignment.

Give me reassurance that it won't take hold again and I will reconsider next time around.

If that was all he was doing then no one would give a fuck. They'd probably throw a goodbye party

But he's actively cosying up to a war criminal and condemning people to death under occupation by said war criminal

You think Trump’s for women’s rights and child safeguarding? The man who was friends with Epstein and “grabs them by the pussy” — not to mention his recurrent settlements and court cases for sexual harassment?

As for immigrants — is your job in a school under threat from the Mexicans? US immigration is relevant to UK schools?

Come on - you know quite well that Trumpism is a dangerous nonsense. People aren’t obliged to swing from one idiocy straight over to another.

They all say that. "I voted left from when I was an embryo. I'm an intelligent, well read individual but people keep telling me I'm thick as pig shit because I agree with authoritarianism. Far right is meaningless now. I blame the left, they made me do it. Fascists!"

Well, there you have it, @Whimsicalgrape .

Maybe I am no longer a socialist. Maybe I am now just interested in myself and will vote accordingly.

Like 77m Americans.

Persuade me otherwise without calling me stupid, or a bigot, or a Nazi. Tell me you have listened to my concerns about women's rights, and child safeguarding, and immigration.

Then you will win me back and hopefully, enough of those 77m Americans to make a difference.