To think that now is the time for powerful voices to speak up…

I know, definitely one of the most astonishing attempts to defend trump

I said trump seems 'a little more dignified' than he was before and I gave a reason. And you didn't read what I said and went straight to telling me I was an idiot and hadn't seen his speeches and all the crazy things he has said.....

And I think that proves my point.

David Lammy called me a dinosaur, hoarding rights. Keir starmer told me I shouldn't say only women have a cervix. I get safeguarding training on how to spot FGM, forced marriages, how to spot CSA, but heaven forbid anyone should even mention grooming gangs.

Should I vote for them anyway? Despite the contempt they have for me?

I know, definitely one of the most astonishing attempts to defend trump

'How do you feel about Andrew Tate?'

He is vile. But he is nowhere near political power and never should be.

The exact phrasing escapes me.

But there is a difference between 'if you are rich you can just grab women by the pussy' and 'there are some women who will just let you grab em by the pussy if you are rich.'

If I had had a vote in the last US election I may have compiled a more comprehensive list of reasons for debates such as this but I didn't. I know many many Americans did, and a man who was roundly vilified, branded a misogynist pschycopath, a racist, a clown, won outright. Despite everything.

He was seen as better than the alternative. There are lessons to be learnt from that.

Thank you for the interesting conversation. I have learnt and absorbed even more than before. I am just as confident now that the right person is in charge for the foreseeable future as I was a few hours ago.

I am only one person on a forum, I am anonymous and open minded, I am intelligent and engaged and have responsibities in real life. So, food for thought for you guts, maybe? Or not. Sleep well, notwithstanding xxx

'How do you feel about Andrew Tate?'

He is vile. But he is nowhere near political power and never should be.

But there is a difference between 'if you are rich you can just grab women by the pussy' and 'there are some women who will just let you grab em by the pussy if you are rich.'

There’s no difference whatsoever. It’s disgusting misogyny regardless.

'How do you feel about Andrew Tate?'

He is vile. But he is nowhere near political power and never should be.

The exact phrasing escapes me.

But there is a difference between 'if you are rich you can just grab women by the pussy' and 'there are some women who will just let you grab em by the pussy if you are rich.'

If I had had a vote in the last US election I may have compiled a more comprehensive list of reasons for debates such as this but I didn't. I know many many Americans did, and a man who was roundly vilified, branded a misogynist pschycopath, a racist, a clown, won outright. Despite everything.

He was seen as better than the alternative. There are lessons to be learnt from that.

Thank you for the interesting conversation. I have learnt and absorbed even more than before. I am just as confident now that the right person is in charge for the foreseeable future as I was a few hours ago.

I am only one person on a forum, I am anonymous and open minded, I am intelligent and engaged and have responsibities in real life. So, food for thought for you guts, maybe? Or not. Sleep well, notwithstanding xxx

I said trump seems 'a little more dignified' than he was before and I gave a reason. And you didn't read what I said and went straight to telling me I was an idiot and hadn't seen his speeches and all the crazy things he has said.....

And I think that proves my point.

David Lammy called me a dinosaur, hoarding rights. Keir starmer told me I shouldn't say only women have a cervix. I get safeguarding training on how to spot FGM, forced marriages, how to spot CSA, but heaven forbid anyone should even mention grooming gangs.

Should I vote for them anyway? Despite the contempt they have for me?

'I think you are being very myopic. The tide was starting to turn on that issue anyway. Aligning yourself with nasty misogynists is an alarmingly naive choice.'

The public are making their feelings clear by voting a certain way. By not supporting certain causes, by withdrawing their spending from Budweiser, gyms, Disney films.... but big stats with huge platforms?

And I don't think kamala Harris was changing her mind.

And why am I the myopic one? Hillary Clinton wanted to make Bill Clinton the first gentleman. Feminist hero?

I was as disgusted as anyone by the 'grab em by the pussy' quote. But I did some more nuanced thinking, I listened to the full conversation, and have come to the conclusion that Trump was misrepresented. What are you going to do about that? Insist I am wrong. Do it. I am fine with that. Support who you like, belive what you like. I have no interest in trying to persuade you.

What about 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman!' less course, perhaps, equally vile. And yes, the Clintons also visited epstein island.

So you know what? I am going to hold my nose, align with whoever will listen for now, brace myself for the consequences and see how I feel at the next election.

If you want people like me to vote alongside people like you, stop treating me like an idiot.

@Alifemoreordinary123 ,
”I’m not highly educated or hugely politically savvy. ”
You don’t say. 🙄

Did I say they were? No. It’s not my fault you don’t understand the nuances of history.

So has mine!

You don’t realise that it was Trump’s election in 2016 that emboldened Russian aggression and renewed incursions into European air and naval space, plus his statements on NATO?

You don’t remember the Trump family links to Russia in his first term?

Trump has been enabling Russian expansion all along.

I'm not Trump fan and some of the things he's come out with this week are just odd and stupid. However looking objectively at the Ukraine war. Prior to Trump, there was no end in sight for it. Just a pointless war of attrition that was going one of 2 ways. Ukraine losses get too much and Russia pushes forward. Or red lines eventually get crossed and NATO joins the war. Not sure about most, but I don't fancy any of those 2 options as they both inevitably lead to a wider conflict with Russia.

Europe has needed to pull it's finger out for ages now regarding defence, leaders have been saying this for ages and yes it's a bit unorthodox the way it's come about but it needed to happen.

People in this and other threads are correct in saying that without US support no one else will step up because the fact is they can't afford to. Trump knows this so knows Europe will inevitably agree to any of the ceasefire terms ( hence why leaders haven't come about and said they reject the American peace terms or potential terms with Russia)

Appeasing Putin is dangerous by Trump, but Europe were sleepy in 2014 when we should have dealt with this properly. Yes it's the US that are acting foolish now but we shouldn't have let it get to this stage 10 years ago.

Trump only has America interests at heart. This was not news to anyone and people that are shocked that any of this is happened were naive as this is exactly what most expected and even Trump said he was going to do.

3 positives will come out of this though.

The fighting will stop (hopefully long term)

UK will once again move closer to the EU

EU will buck up it's ideas and sort it's defence out.

Where our future relationship lies with the US is anyone's guess. I'd think it will be come just that a relationship as opposed to a "special relationship"