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Original poster

To think that now is the time for powerful voices to speak up…

289 replies

Alifemoreordinary123 · 20/02/2025 20:14

I’m not highly educated or hugely politically savvy. But like many people, I’m horrified by Trump and Musk’s approach, propaganda and ideology. It’s increasingly possibly they will take the world to a very dark place. I keep thinking, surely there are enough counter powers - people with power and influence, leaders from business, media, the arts, politics across the Western world to try and counter some of their rhetoric. I’m not naive to the immense power they hold, but surely reason, sense, logic and hope will win over?

OP posts:
OonaStubbs · 21/02/2025 01:42

How much more speaking up could there be? People spoke up before the election that Trump won.

Ger1atricMillennial · 21/02/2025 01:34

The truth is that plenty voices did speak up, but the second time around the writing was on the wall and so everyone is now putting is using their "worse case scenarios" planning. As Trump is so chaotic its going to involve a lot of ego stroking and gritting of teeth. This is what politicians are very very good at doing.

Mmeme · 21/02/2025 01:24

Donotwantnot · 20/02/2025 20:23

Are you that shortsighted, really?

The war was going on and on and on and on. It was costing the U.S. a fortune.

You keep your enemies close.

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The accusation of shortsighted is an interesting one. Can you explain your longsighted view of how events are likely to unfold once the war is 'over' and why it's such a good thing?

madamweb · 21/02/2025 00:38

rabbitwoman · 21/02/2025 00:26

I would not be consenting, or signalling in any way that I consent to that.

I would not have a lot of respect for a woman who did consent and sought it out, but that would not be any of my business.

As for silly banter, well, there is a time and a place. Trump doesn't seem to judge that very well, which is not great for a statesman. Eminent statesman such as Clinton or Kennedy have been equally misogynist, but more discreet, I wish there were decent alternatives but in 2024, there weren't.

Does that clear it up for you? I doubt it because you are confident in your opinions. That's great. My opinion is stable right now but likely to change with evidence and a good argument, which I have not received.

This is politics. I wish there was a better system, but we have not found one yet.

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And Trump wouldn't care whether you consented or not

Whimsicalgrape · 21/02/2025 00:37

Donotwantnot · 21/02/2025 00:33

Hold up. You’re calling other people who disagree with you fascists but you’ve just clearly stated you don’t believe in democracy but dictatorships.

Interesting.

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Aye, it's called sarcasm.

neverthelastone · 21/02/2025 00:35

But we don’t even have to go back more than a handful of years to find a very illustrative example of when the voting public ignores the bleeding obvious. Think of BoJo. When he emerged as a Brexiter in 2016 the voters were all: what an unscrupulous lying chancer, but hey, he’s a fun guy! We’d have a pint with him! When he stood for leader and before the election in which he got a majority, even the right wing papers dragged out his school reports from Eton that basically said: Boris is an unscrupulous lying chancer who thinks the rules don’t apply to him.

And lo and behold, a couple of years later the voters were all: OMG guys, do you know that Boris is an unscrupulous lying chancer who locked us in our houses and then had parties because he thought the rules didn’t apply to him? OMG, how were we so deceived? 😱😭

Wheb actually everyone had always known that Boris was an utter disaster. They just liked the scams he was selling.

Same with Trump. The voters aren’t somehow magically right. They just like the lies he’s peddling.

Donotwantnot · 21/02/2025 00:33

Whimsicalgrape · 20/02/2025 23:59

Doubt rabbitwoman is a woman. Even more doubtful they were ever a socialist at heart. Yeah maybe there should be an IQ test before people are allowed to vote

Hold up. You’re calling other people who disagree with you fascists but you’ve just clearly stated you don’t believe in democracy but dictatorships.

Interesting.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 21/02/2025 00:32

madamweb · 21/02/2025 00:21

It's not really a proper democracy once you have huge intervention by Russia and incredibly unpleasant billionaires to manipulate the outcome though

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Well, yes, I agree. Sadly, I think our democracy is going to be further eroded in the coming years.

Sothatsalrighthen · 21/02/2025 00:30

Looking at Google Maps Ukraine. Have a look.

Whimsicalgrape · 21/02/2025 00:28

rabbitwoman · 21/02/2025 00:26

I would not be consenting, or signalling in any way that I consent to that.

I would not have a lot of respect for a woman who did consent and sought it out, but that would not be any of my business.

As for silly banter, well, there is a time and a place. Trump doesn't seem to judge that very well, which is not great for a statesman. Eminent statesman such as Clinton or Kennedy have been equally misogynist, but more discreet, I wish there were decent alternatives but in 2024, there weren't.

Does that clear it up for you? I doubt it because you are confident in your opinions. That's great. My opinion is stable right now but likely to change with evidence and a good argument, which I have not received.

This is politics. I wish there was a better system, but we have not found one yet.

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I don't think consent is in Trumps vocabulary.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 21/02/2025 00:28

madamweb · 21/02/2025 00:22

Maybe @rabbitwoman only watches Fox news?

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Maybe, but even Fox News doesn't manage to make Trump look humble or gracious. Those are simply not the words that I would expect even his most rabid supporters to associate with him.

I understand that some people admire what they perceive to be his strength, his irreverence for all the usual rules of engagement, his tendency to disrupt etc. I don't agree with them, but I can understand at least how they are perceiving things. But graciousness and humility? Seriously?

It seems pretty self-evident to me that graciousness and humility would not be amongst the values of Trump supporters, because his extreme deficiencies in these areas would inevitably alienate anyone who puts even the slightest importance on such things.

Whimsicalgrape · 21/02/2025 00:27

Don't treat them like an idiot @Madamweb. It's not their fault they don't make sense.

rabbitwoman · 21/02/2025 00:26

ThenUm · 21/02/2025 00:15

So if you met Trump and he grabbed you between your legs would you be ok with that?

Show quote history

I would not be consenting, or signalling in any way that I consent to that.

I would not have a lot of respect for a woman who did consent and sought it out, but that would not be any of my business.

As for silly banter, well, there is a time and a place. Trump doesn't seem to judge that very well, which is not great for a statesman. Eminent statesman such as Clinton or Kennedy have been equally misogynist, but more discreet, I wish there were decent alternatives but in 2024, there weren't.

Does that clear it up for you? I doubt it because you are confident in your opinions. That's great. My opinion is stable right now but likely to change with evidence and a good argument, which I have not received.

This is politics. I wish there was a better system, but we have not found one yet.

madamweb · 21/02/2025 00:22

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 21/02/2025 00:20

I agree with your point in democracy, even though I despair at the stupidity of voters. We have to live with the decisions of the people, even when they make terrible decisions, because that is how democracy works.

I'm utterly incredulous though at your perception of Trump as a humble man who is gracious in his victory. I can't for the life of me make any sense of what you've written here, as it is so far from the reality that I'm seeing every time I turn the TV on. Mind-boggling.

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Maybe @rabbitwoman only watches Fox news?

madamweb · 21/02/2025 00:21

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 21/02/2025 00:20

I agree with your point in democracy, even though I despair at the stupidity of voters. We have to live with the decisions of the people, even when they make terrible decisions, because that is how democracy works.

I'm utterly incredulous though at your perception of Trump as a humble man who is gracious in his victory. I can't for the life of me make any sense of what you've written here, as it is so far from the reality that I'm seeing every time I turn the TV on. Mind-boggling.

Show quote history

It's not really a proper democracy once you have huge intervention by Russia and incredibly unpleasant billionaires to manipulate the outcome though

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 21/02/2025 00:20

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 21:39

@ThenUm he seems to have listened and learnt. He's a bit more dignified. I think he sees his political comeback as vindication and old Trump may have gloated, but this Trump is a bit more humble.

He takes so much criticism and ridicule and contempt on the chin, but I think because he is confident of public support behind him, and the comedians and actors and pop stars who take aim are out of touch with the real lives of the voters. He's done something amazing, whatever you think of his politics, and he's gracious in his victory.

And no matter how much anyone disagrees and voiced their feelings, the people voted for him. Do you agree with democracy or not? Or do you think only people who pass some kind of IQ test should be able to vote?

I agree with your point in democracy, even though I despair at the stupidity of voters. We have to live with the decisions of the people, even when they make terrible decisions, because that is how democracy works.

I'm utterly incredulous though at your perception of Trump as a humble man who is gracious in his victory. I can't for the life of me make any sense of what you've written here, as it is so far from the reality that I'm seeing every time I turn the TV on. Mind-boggling.

madamweb · 21/02/2025 00:18

neverthelastone · 21/02/2025 00:16

Er….plenty of powerful and rich people spoke FOR him? Why do you think the Techbro Billionaires love him? Why do you think the US media conglomerates were all for him? He’s the candidate of the rich! You think some teenage Taylor Swift fans represent the powers that be in the US…?

Not to mention that the actual voting percentage was narrower than in 2016. Even in the deep south or Texas, if you narrow in on the US voting map you’ll still find a 30% vote share and plenty of whole districts who opted for Harris — especially the more educated urban and middle class populations. Trump is largely the candidate of the very rich and the poor white rural areas.

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Yeah he's quite literally the puppet for a bunch of Tech billionaires led by Elon "handmaids tale" Musk

Whimsicalgrape · 21/02/2025 00:18

rabbitwoman · 21/02/2025 00:09

You don't have to believe me. I am not running for power, I don't need you to believe me.

You might want me and all those like me to believe you, though, next time there is a vote. Otherwise you are going to be very disappointed again.....

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No, you're right I don't have to believe you but any post you make on here about not wanting to be called an idiot, a nazi, a bigot etc. I'll take with a pinch of salt as you've said yourself your not credible in your own arguments. Took you at face value at first, but nope I see you.

Oh, and I think we will ALL be disappointed over the next few years. Don't exclude yourself. You're not that special.

madamweb · 21/02/2025 00:16

ThenUm · 21/02/2025 00:15

So if you met Trump and he grabbed you between your legs would you be ok with that?

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Rabbit would be fine with it as long as he wasn't wearing a dress while he groped her.

neverthelastone · 21/02/2025 00:16

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 23:39

AND HE STILL WON!!!

He was still considered better than the alternative.

If I have given the impression I am thrilled with that then that's my fault, because the point I am trying to make is that however awful he has been made out to be, the powerful and rich who spoke against him could not persuade the voters they were better.

I am interested in figuring out why. For next time.

Er….plenty of powerful and rich people spoke FOR him? Why do you think the Techbro Billionaires love him? Why do you think the US media conglomerates were all for him? He’s the candidate of the rich! You think some teenage Taylor Swift fans represent the powers that be in the US…?

Not to mention that the actual voting percentage was narrower than in 2016. Even in the deep south or Texas, if you narrow in on the US voting map you’ll still find a 30% vote share and plenty of whole districts who opted for Harris — especially the more educated urban and middle class populations. Trump is largely the candidate of the very rich and the poor white rural areas.

ThenUm · 21/02/2025 00:15

rabbitwoman · 21/02/2025 00:04

I am a woman. I am not a rabbit.

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So if you met Trump and he grabbed you between your legs would you be ok with that?

rabbitwoman · 21/02/2025 00:14

madamweb · 21/02/2025 00:12

You realise Brexit didn't happen this afternoon?

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This afternoon I was blissfully unaware of so much.....

madamweb · 21/02/2025 00:13

rabbitwoman · 21/02/2025 00:09

You don't have to believe me. I am not running for power, I don't need you to believe me.

You might want me and all those like me to believe you, though, next time there is a vote. Otherwise you are going to be very disappointed again.....

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History has shown us, repeatedly, that eventually Turkeys who voted for Christmas find themselves trussed up and plopped in a baking tray

Wordsmithery · 21/02/2025 00:13

Donotwantnot · 20/02/2025 20:21

I wish our government was being as forthright as Trump and Co are. I’m cheering them on. It’s world changing, yes. But in a good way.

What exactly do you object to? Cost cutting? Reducing financial waste? Stopping fraud? Efficiency?

Read the room, FFS. And in this case, the world is the room.

BIossomtoes · 21/02/2025 00:12

rabbitwoman · 21/02/2025 00:09

You don't have to believe me. I am not running for power, I don't need you to believe me.

You might want me and all those like me to believe you, though, next time there is a vote. Otherwise you are going to be very disappointed again.....

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I’m not disappointed. I got what I wanted in July.