To think that now is the time for powerful voices to speak up…

That’s a very simplistic view.

I don't believe putin does want Poland and I don't think Ukraine should fall at all.
The worst case scenario is putin forces an election, it's fake and he gets his puppet in.

I can't imagine the Russian people want more war either.

If zelensky was on trumps side and did accept some of the terms being banied about I'm not sure if that would make Ukraine position stronger.
If USA wants a "deal" with aluminum then that makes them more invested in the country. They said the mine isn't doing anything right now.

I'm not sure what people want to happen with Ukraine, it always seems to be wishful thinking, as if Putin could ever be persuaded to stop his plans for increasing Russia's power and influence. I get the appeasement comparison and the view that it just enables Putin to rearm and come back stronger but what are the alternatives? As far as I can see the only two alternatives.

One, to draw out the Ukraine war for as long as possible to act as a continued drain on Russian resources and accept that the west needs to bankroll Ukraine for the forseeable future and accept many more Ukrainian casualties. The hope being that eventually Russia will run out of money before the west does and the Russian people will overthrow their government and install a western-friendly one.

Two, for the west to go all-in and provide military support, NATO troops on the ground, taking the fight into Russia with the intention of overthrowing Putin and replacing it with a puppet regime. This means all out war, effectively starting World War III and giving a realistic chance of the nuclear annihilation of the planet because as Putin has previously stated if there is no Russia there needs to be no world.

There is no way that I can see for the current war to be ended without major and devestating consequences. The choice is to take them now or store them up for later. Trump's position is clearly the latter, save them for a few years from now when he is no longer in power and is quite possible dead anyway.

The question for the rest of us, is is Ukraine worth it? Where do we draw the line? If Ukraine falls, do we intervene when Putin invades Poland? Or Germany? France?

“There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others.”
Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

@bigvig Question for you

Do you think women who are drunk or wear short skirts deserve to be raped?

At the end of one of the recent trump rambles I think at mar a lago he attacked zelensky but the last words were something like, we are the strongest military in the world I wouldn't go up agaisnt us.
Or something like that.
I'd say that's a direct message to putin.
But mixed in with the butter.

@neverthelastone the problem in the heart of government is that Boris didn't want to lock us in our homes then he and most of downing Street got covid. He's a liberalist at heart and they didn't lock us down fast enough. Boris was out shaking the hands of covid patients.
Apparently a party was sprung on him for his bday. By which point he and downing steet had covid and would have had a good amount of immunity.
It's written as though it was a great time for them, they got what they wanted, locked us all away and were having back to back parties.

Apparently this is how trump negotiates and now I don't blame him at all but zelensky has unfortunately played trump wrong.

Trump will be guided by a sophisticated team who will understand putin I imagine that they run through game plans and what has and hasn't worked on putin.
Intelligence would be guiding them as well
They wanted access to their aluminum reverses for about 1 year. I'm not sure of further details.

I'm not sure what people want Trump to do with putin, he can carry on as before like Biden in a stalemate, push putin to the brink of nuclear war by supplying harder weapons, call putin bluff and start to randomly threaten putin bluff? Taking the entire world to nuclear war?

Boris wasn’t as dangerous though. He was a knob, but he held quite liberal views

Russia was provoked to invade Ukraine?

I've never seen so many people keen to endorse Putin and his ambitions. It's frightening.

Luckily there are many many more people and governments who recognise Putin for what he is.

Trump is Krasnov. Has been since the 1980s.

It’s not about ignoring. It’s about being clear that it wasn’t grounds for invasion. It’s Ukraines rare mineral wealth everyone is after.

This! - plus to ignore the issues which provoked Rusdia to invade Ukraine is naive and childish. To think the US wouldn't invade Mexico if China overthrew their government and were encouraging them to join a military alliance against the US is ridiculous. Thsts what happened in the Ukraine. Yes Russia shouldn't have invaded. Ukraine is a sovereign state. But - that's not how geopolitics works.

1 million have died in this completely avoidable war. I'm glad Trump is trying to end it. I'm not happy with his rhetoric towards Gaza - but on this issue he's right.

Exactly that. Trump’s a useful idiot.

Yup. Petrifying.

Trump is emboldening Russia and China.

All of us AND the USA will pay for this.

Appeasement of a bully just means giving in to their demands.

Trump is no sophisticated statesman. Putin and Musk have a hold over him and are using him for their own ends.

This and pp who mentioned celebrities, some media, on here, loads speaking up

I for one hope the rest of the world does. France and the UK have committed troops.

Not to fight, only 30k

Andrew Tate? Didn’t know that. It’s doesn’t surprise me but nevertheless I’m shocked. And utterly depressed.

Would you have said the same about Hitler? And I make that comparison without a hint of flippancy.

Well put.

So are you suggesting that the women he grabs are somehow consenting by ‘signalling’ their consent in some way?

Are you saying that any sexual assault claims made against him are false? That the women are somehow ‘signalling’ their consent?

Are you saying that you would not be at risk of that because you’d be somehow better at ‘signalling’ non consent?

How would you feel if you met a man and he greeted you by grabbing your pussy? Or kissing you sexually?

For any adult who is considering making a sexual move on another adult today, could you clarify what kind of signals, or lack of, we should be looking out for? If I’m about to grab a man’s penis without exchanging words, how do I know that he is consenting without asking?

Blessed Day

What friends is he keeping close?

Canada? Because repeatedly hearing we will be the 51st State isn’t helping our relationship.

You are still unaware of so much.

Painfully unaware.

How naive are you? Stopping fraud? Trump is a long time major fraudster who should be in jail.
Last thing I heard him say was that Ukraine was to blame for being invaded by Russia. And last I read of him was a push to have sanctions lifted against the sex trafficking misogynist Andrew Tate.
But yeah, let's cheer him on anyway.🤔

What, getting on the right side of arguably the most powerful/dangerous man in the world!? Er, yes, I'd definitely say that was a good thing.
You know what they say: 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer...'