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Original poster

To think that now is the time for powerful voices to speak up…

289 replies

Alifemoreordinary123 · 20/02/2025 20:14

I’m not highly educated or hugely politically savvy. But like many people, I’m horrified by Trump and Musk’s approach, propaganda and ideology. It’s increasingly possibly they will take the world to a very dark place. I keep thinking, surely there are enough counter powers - people with power and influence, leaders from business, media, the arts, politics across the Western world to try and counter some of their rhetoric. I’m not naive to the immense power they hold, but surely reason, sense, logic and hope will win over?

OP posts:
Andwhoisasking · 20/02/2025 21:13

Meh. The west have been moving to populism for quite some time. The issue is people haven’t spoken up and in fact tried to shut people down. The far left really need to look in the mirror there. No good hand wringing now. The damage is done. Not addressing people’s concerns around immigration, wealth, tax, jobs, etc, etc. People have moved to populism and people who think they will ‘hear them.’ It happening here in the UK and across Europe. We aren’t far behind voting in populist leaders. Especially with the car crash that is Labour. They aren’t the answer people hoped for.

People try to shut it down shouting racist, far right etc and it just fuels it further. It almost seems unstoppable now. The time to speak and listen was at least 5/6 years ago.

ilovesooty · 20/02/2025 21:11

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:19

Trump is just withdrawing the US from (expensive) stuff that he doesn't think they should be involved in. Totally fair enough. Every other country in the World can step in to fill the void if they want to.

Oh here we go...

HRTQueen · 20/02/2025 21:10

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:29

Just words. He's called lots of people lots of things. The rest of the World are free to support Ukraine if they wish

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Not many are going to outside of Europe

Putin has powerful allies China, India and Iran and now the US

collectively Europe could be one voice but many European countries are very divided at present and with Europes most powerful country Germany going to the polls this weekend this makes it even more challenging

European leaders were foolish over Putin for a long time too reliant on Russian fuel just how he wanted them to be

59thStreetBridgeSong · 20/02/2025 21:10

ThenUm · 20/02/2025 21:02

Really? The Daily Mail were huge Nazi supporters for way too long into the war, I know that much is true. I’m not sure the British government were really just stalling to be honest but history is not my specialism.

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History is my specialism - graduated in the early 1990s and have taught Germany in the 1930s for so many years that I can see all the parallels right now.

59thStreetBridgeSong · 20/02/2025 21:07

LambriniBobInIsleworthISeesYa · 20/02/2025 21:04

Yeah, this. Thanks for linking to the specific parts of history @ThenUm so that those unfamiliar can read and see the parallels. This is why this stuff needs to be taught in schools.

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History teacher here - it is taught in schools.

59thStreetBridgeSong · 20/02/2025 21:06

ThenUm · 20/02/2025 20:27

Missing the point how?

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You’re not missing the point. This piece of writing is famous for good reason.

LambriniBobInIsleworthISeesYa · 20/02/2025 21:04

ThenUm · 20/02/2025 20:24

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Yeah, this. Thanks for linking to the specific parts of history @ThenUm so that those unfamiliar can read and see the parallels. This is why this stuff needs to be taught in schools.

ThenUm · 20/02/2025 21:02

custardpyjamas · 20/02/2025 20:57

We partly did that for a reason, we were not prepared for war and were stalling for time while starting to re-arm. We can't afford a sudden break with the US but it will come gradually.

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Really? The Daily Mail were huge Nazi supporters for way too long into the war, I know that much is true. I’m not sure the British government were really just stalling to be honest but history is not my specialism.

bullrushes · 20/02/2025 21:01

I'm sad that we seem to be moving rapidly towards a place where the Americans are the bad guys.

ZippyDoodle · 20/02/2025 21:00

Donotwantnot · 20/02/2025 20:21

I wish our government was being as forthright as Trump and Co are. I’m cheering them on. It’s world changing, yes. But in a good way.

What exactly do you object to? Cost cutting? Reducing financial waste? Stopping fraud? Efficiency?

Bloody hell, are you for real?!

Trump's meddling in Ukraine and fawning Putin is not a good thing for the wider world.

luckylavender · 20/02/2025 21:00

Donotwantnot · 20/02/2025 20:21

I wish our government was being as forthright as Trump and Co are. I’m cheering them on. It’s world changing, yes. But in a good way.

What exactly do you object to? Cost cutting? Reducing financial waste? Stopping fraud? Efficiency?

Lying, sacking people, sucking up to Putin .. just off the top of my head.

Lorelaigilmore88 · 20/02/2025 20:59

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:52

He is winning

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Nope. Russia failed in a quick victory, its now in a war of attrition and they haven't had any significant gains recently. Russia has about 20% Ukrainian territory. Which for a military the size of Russia vs Ukraine to take in 16 months is not winning.

luckylavender · 20/02/2025 20:58

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:19

Trump is just withdrawing the US from (expensive) stuff that he doesn't think they should be involved in. Totally fair enough. Every other country in the World can step in to fill the void if they want to.

You think that's all he's doing? Pay better attention.

custardpyjamas · 20/02/2025 20:57

ThenUm · 20/02/2025 20:26

Absolutely. Appeasing him is dangerous. If you give a bully an inch they will take much more than a mile. You have to stand up to them. We appeased Hitler and kept him close at the start of WWII and look what happened there.

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We partly did that for a reason, we were not prepared for war and were stalling for time while starting to re-arm. We can't afford a sudden break with the US but it will come gradually.

ThenUm · 20/02/2025 20:56

59thStreetBridgeSong · 20/02/2025 20:39

He’s created a concentration camp in the Panama jungle. It took Hitler two months to create the first one. Trump took power less than a month ago.

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What? I don’t know anything about that. Have you got a link? Or may be it’s best I don’t know 😔

Zoopet · 20/02/2025 20:54

Donotwantnot · 20/02/2025 20:21

I wish our government was being as forthright as Trump and Co are. I’m cheering them on. It’s world changing, yes. But in a good way.

What exactly do you object to? Cost cutting? Reducing financial waste? Stopping fraud? Efficiency?

Bots.

59thStreetBridgeSong · 20/02/2025 20:52

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:44

Putin must be quaking in his boots

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Are you J.D.Vance?

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:52

Lorelaigilmore88 · 20/02/2025 20:48

Yeah he should be. One of the supposedly most powerful armies in the world launched a full scale invasion of a much smaller, militarily weaker country, and 16 months on and hes still not winning.

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He is winning

username299 · 20/02/2025 20:49

I don't see it lasting very long OP. I think there's trouble brewing both inside and outside the US.

coxesorangepippin · 20/02/2025 20:49

It'll never happen

Cos it's difficult to move out of your comfortable mansion on behalf of the peasants

Lorelaigilmore88 · 20/02/2025 20:48

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:44

Putin must be quaking in his boots

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Yeah he should be. One of the supposedly most powerful armies in the world launched a full scale invasion of a much smaller, militarily weaker country, and 16 months on and hes still not winning.

Viviennemary · 20/02/2025 20:45

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:25

Who cares what he says? The end result is that the US will stop funding the Ukrainian war effort. Time for other countries to step up.........
No. Thought not. So Trump is a monster for withdrawing, but literally not one single other country is willing to do it without him.

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Europe won't even pay a fair share of the Nato cost. No wonder the USA is sick of them.

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:44

59thStreetBridgeSong · 20/02/2025 20:42

I for one hope the rest of the world does. France and the UK have committed troops.

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Putin must be quaking in his boots

Lorelaigilmore88 · 20/02/2025 20:43

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 20/02/2025 20:29

I can see where he's coming from.

The best evidence we have now suggests that Putin believed that an independent, democratic Ukraine is a threat to him and to Russia.

He sees Ukraine's interest in joining NATO as an act of war.
Unfortunately, Putin’s decided that the only way to deal with that threat is through the use of overwhelming military force.

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Ukraine has been independent and democratic for years, that isnt why Putin invaded. He invaded because hes a megalomaniac who still mourns the collapse of the USSR and thinks Ukraine belongs to Russia.
And Ukraine debating NATO membership isnt justification for him invading, it just speeded up what he's been trying to do piece by piece (Crimea, Donbass region) for over a decade.
Trump is a fool and he's been played. There is absolutely no nuance to his politics. He's told that supporting Ukraine = billions of dollars spent and that's all he can see. And his isolationist politics? What country has ever done really well without allies.

59thStreetBridgeSong · 20/02/2025 20:42

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:29

Just words. He's called lots of people lots of things. The rest of the World are free to support Ukraine if they wish

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I for one hope the rest of the world does. France and the UK have committed troops.

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