Would you pay more tax to boost defence spending

We find ourselves agreeing far more than I’d ever have thought possible.

Agree with what @Papyrophile says

Our navy needs to look more like the navy of Norway plus the Nuclear deterrent

We should seriously ask for their help in modernising our Navy. They spend a fraction of what we do to defend a larger country and coastline.

Instead we waste money on the equipment required to fight wars in far of lands which we have no possibility of winning, mainly so our politicians can pretend they are big boys. It’s pathetic.

I understand why you feel that way @ItsCalledAConversation but unless you personally are ready to step up and argue, fiercely, for what you believe, nothing will change. I also believe that you are wrong to deny the importance of defence.

Absolutely 100% not. It sickens me that the world is tooling up for war because of the actions of insane megalomaniac men. I want no part of it at all. We should be paying tax on social care, healthcare, education. Not pointless wars designed as penis comparison exercises.

I'm neither a peacenik, nor a warmonger, but the wife of a man who does quite a bit of work for the services. And I am the daughter of a (now very old) naval officer, a helicopter pilot (mostly search and rescue). So, yes, I follow the debate, I live near Plymouth too. The defence budgets have contracted very tightly, too much IMO, and money has been spently wrongly... on two huge floating targets without adequate air defences, to create work and buy votes in Scotland, for a former Prime Minister, while more useful vessels have been sold off or scrapped. Meanwhile the surface fleet is down to a level that couldn't help the coastguard police the UK's 7.5m km coastline. I don't pretend to know the answer but I recall my dad's comment 30-odd years ago that we would end up with a littoral force. To save anyone bothering to look up the term, it means the coastal shelf before the ocean floor drops away. It is about 20 miles off the coast on the Atlantic facing coast of the UK.

Seems we've got to really and I'm a peacenik. It's new times and rather than overlay old history onto the present - best go with the flow whilst building good 'flood' defences and a strong defencively/attack force too.

Though it pains me to say it.

Far too much money is being sent to other countries

@MissTrip82

"People really are extremely stupid if they think spending less on foreign aid and climate change makes them safer."

Dang it - I guess Ukraine has been getting it all wrong these past three years. If only they had been spending more on foreign aid and climate change and less on defence then those pesky Russians would never have dared to attack them and any attack would have been much more easily resisted.

Now let's look at "extremely stupid" ...

No.

@Alexandra2001

"I think its a way for Trump to carry on support for Ukraine but say "look at what i got..."
Their resources aren't that amazing and most are in Russian occupied lands.

Russia held at bay, the Yanks get Europe to spend more, Ukraine happy ish! no US troops at risk...

He'll spin this as big win for the USA!"

A blunt but brilliant analysis.

Also after many threads on many different topics of being opposed to and arguing against each other - I think we are both unusually agreeing too much recently 😀😀😀!

I think its a way for Trump to carry on support for Ukraine but say "look at what i got..."
Their resources aren't that amazing and most are in Russian occupied lands.

Russia held at bay, the Yanks get Europe to spend more, Ukraine happy ish! no US troops at risk...

He'll spin this as big win for the USA!

In your opinion.

Europe has many more gaps to close and deficiencies to correct than the US military. He also wants to increase American defense spending.

Hmm. Trump wants Europe to spend 5% of GDP on defense. The USA spends 3.3%. He just thinks of a number and starts riffing doesn't he?

I don't think any more taxes need to be levied or increased for most people. There's plenty of other ways to raise that money.

Eg. Financial Services are exempt from VAT. Why? That would raise several billion.
Investment Income : this is taxed less than income from actual work - at least at the upper end. Billions here.
Tax Relief on private pension contributions - align it with the basic level of income tax. Just stop featherbedding the uber wealthy and the corporations. They won't go short ffs. There's probably lots of other loopholes they could close but I wouldn't hold my breath. Gordon Brown promised to shut the tax havens back in the 90s....

@Alexandra2001

"But one can only do what is best for the UK and a stronger military carries many benefits..."

As you know I fully agree with a stronger military but by agreeing to come to the aid of a European country that has deliberately chosen to be militarily weaker then that comes with the risk of being dragged into a war the UK in a manner similar to the pre WW1 alliances and support treaties, that simply creates bigger conflicts out of smaller ones.

I would simply say that if you don't spend either 2% or 2.5 % of GDP on defence then you lose the support of NATO.

Some questions I've been pondering on. If you were Trump and Musk, what would your ultimate goal be? What do they need those minerals for? What could they manufacture with those minerals that would help them reach their ultimate goal?

Who is going to design, test and build complex weapons who don't have shareholders?

I'd like to know just what our tax is doing now. We could be so much smarter, not give huge greedy sub contractors immense sums for what could be done so much more cheaply if shareholders weren't involved and we had good individuals to manage our country. Defence can benefit technologies that go far beyond war, bring peace, stop migrations, but we need better management of UK Limited first!!

No, the government take enough already. UK gov already steals extracts over half my wages already: income tax, NI, council tax, 20% vat, fuel duty, green energy tax, booze duty etc etc.

Keep in mind WE ARE NOT AT WAR and we certainly don't want to declare war on the largest holder of nukes which has a first use doctrine in response to conventional attacks.

Maybe someone Merz? will do the same if they really aren't keen

Worked on us!

Comes back to the effects of a 0.2 or 3% increase, Croatia etc spending extra adds not one speck of difference to our or europe's security, the UK, France or Germany doing similar will do.

Spain is larger, but its still a relatively poor country, just 45 years ago was a fascist dictatorship, i would imagine there are genuine concerns about having a large military.

But one can only do what is best for the UK and a stronger military carries many benefits...

It strikes me that the majority of people seem to think that war won't happen, do we all have our eyes closed? Just because we don't want it to, doesn't mean that it won't. We therefore need to be prepared, and if that means I have to contribute a bit more to protect the country, then I will do it.

@EasternStandard

I fully agree that proximity matters but on that basis places like Slovenia, Slovakia and Romania should be spending more on defence (as a % of GDP) than the UK not less.

"There may well be a way to get hogher commitment from the sunny further away countries"

But logically why would the average Spanish, Slovenian or Belgian voter choose to spend more on defence than on say a new CT scanner for their hospital or better wages for teachers or pensioner benefits when they can simply rely on UK taxpayer funded defence.

The only way to get "tougher commitment" is to "do a Trump / JD Vance " and for the UK to say to the likes of Spain, Belgium or Slovenia no we won't come to your defence unless you start paying % of GDP on defence- but we have all seen how well that was received.

There is absolutely no logic for these countries taxpayers to spend more on defence when they can rely on other countries taxpayers to do it for them.

Oh I see what you're saying. Poland is very high for good reason, Spain is not.

Proximity matters

But I do think there might be some pressuring in some way from Merz and others, maybe billed around nuclear security that France has

There may well be a way to get hogher commitment from the sunny further away countries