Just a question re transgender

I don't think writing speculative fiction/fantasy/sci fi requires a trans ID. I write these and I am as GC as all get out (suspect that's clear from what I write though it never comes up in the worlds I create - they are all biological reality places!). I also know a few others who write ditto and they may not be GC (can't ask, don't know well enough) but not in any way 'trans' afaik. However, I know there is a sci fi group that meets in my area and I have toyed with the idea of joining, but the woman who runs it (I meet her at my voluntary work) - although she loves MN - definitely presents as non-binary, so I haven't. But that's not so much writers of the genre but some consumers.

It's really not surprising. Sci-fi is fantasy. Transgenderism is fantasy.

@Grammarnut 😂. Your history is a lot better than mine .

Last 100 years? They had that problem in ancient Sumeria. My dad/mum doesn't understand me is the most repeated phrase in history!

It's not clear to me, but thanks for the clarification. She deserves lots of support for that stance. I take it the boys are interested in painting, poetry - those exclusively female past-times, which makes you wonder what JMW Turner, Michaelangelo, Kit Marlowe etc were doing painting paintings and writing plays!

@ProbablyOverEmotional did you read my post?

What is unclear about their post? I find your post the unclear one. It is clear that the poster is 'combatting pro-trans teachers', who try to tell the boys that they are really girls.

So what sex are your children? We don't understand what you are saying without that info. You may be combating pro-trans teachers, for example. We can't tell.

I think there are lots of straight ND or 'geeky' children who feel like social outcasts being lured into the LGBTQ scene because it is a place they feel accepted. Unfortunately it often causes further confusion regarding identity when you have surrounded yourself with people convincing you that you must be gay. Psychologically, it can be a likened to cases of mass hysteria.

I think it's difficult for young people. Suddenly there are all these new questions. What is my gender? Am I healthy? Might I have long COVID? Lists of symptoms and definitions. With no straightforward answers. And them trying to fit into categories. It's the current way. I don't know can feel stupid and unsatisfactory. So they pick something.

Maybe join the doctors with long covid group online, a friend is a part. You can tell all the doctors in there who are no longer able to work or significantly reduced that they are right when they have been marginalised by their own colleagues. That going from working full time/marathon running etc post covid to having to give up being a doctor and leaving the house is, you know, just because they is young wimin.

Not judgment, but some cynicism. I believe that these conditions exist and some people suffer from them. But unfortunately some of the conditions have been picked up by certain groups of people, and now form part of an identity. I’ve seen patients who’ve come in saying they think they’ve got fibromyalgia, so they get their diagnosis, and then a few months later they come back with POTS. Then they come back with a trans friend who also thinks they have POTS. Then they come back asking if they can be tested for long covid. Then they both want referral to the gender reassignment clinic, and referral for ADHD. The latter rarely happens because they often don’t complete the long form that is required for all referrals. Then one of them comes back with a new partner , also trans, who thinks they have EDS. Then the original patient things they have EDS too. And most of them are already on medication for anxiety and depression. And so it goes. I doubt you’ll believe me but this is something I see.

As I say, I think it’s part of their identity. Like listening to the same music, fighting the same causes, wearing the same clothes, following the same influencers, often sharing history of abusive childhoods. Having the same medical conditions (often with no formal diagnostic tests available) is part of “finding their tribe” as people say on MN. So yes, sometimes I think it’s subconsciously imagined. Not a deliberate deception, but a subconscious desire to further identify with their chosen friendship group.

I’ll get slated now for sure.

Sorry, I'm confused. Are you saying that your biologically male autistic children are being coerced into identifying as trans girls by people in medicine and education and actually misgendered by them because they call them she/her/girls?

Yes I have an autistic young adult son who would fit most of what you describe in your OP. He also works in a field where many of his colleagues are similar, lots of them identify as trans / non binary / bi sexual / gender fluid etc .

My son is straight and gender critical, most of his peers assumed he was gay until they asked him recently so he came out as straight 😂. It will be a lot harder to come out as GC. He has tried to remain neutral on this so far but it’s hard as so many of the ( biological ) girls are self harming in one way or another (drugs, binders ) . Of course, none of the boys are ( ‘‘twas ever thus).

Most of them are very nice young people but he’s becoming a little tired of the tendency of a small minority to try and take over the group with their oppression Olympics. These are usually the most privileged white, male, middle class kids (often from public schools ) who are trying to tell others e.g. those who have been asylum seekers/ refugees, care experienced etc that somehow they are the most oppressed.

“ It’s all right for you Maria, not knowing if you father and brothers are dead or alive as they fight on the front line in Ukraine, but my great gran misgendered me. So check your cis het privilege, bitch “.

He has also noticed the tendency of some of them to imply that their families hate them and that they’re completely estranged from them when this turns out not to be the case. For example, he recently visited the home of one of his friends who claims that his parents hate him for being gay and will have nothing to do with him . When in fact they are supporting their son financially through for university and giving him extra money so that he can rent a flat in a nicer area because he’s supposedly scared of being attacked in a rougher area.

My son is aware that it seems fashionable to claim that your parents hate you, when they simply don’t understand you. Which of course is the plight of every generation of teenagers in the west for the last 100 years 😬

So yes there’s a lot of Groupthink and pressure to fit it. Probably like most groups TBH.

And what would you consider an appropriate place? One where anyone who points out biological reality is deemed a bigot and a TERF?

Again, I disagree with you. You are uninformed. Perhaps you could do a literature search on the terms and inform yourself so you can come across as understanding the issues x

in groups of young people in particular there is a phenomenon called social contagion.
In psychology, "social contagion" refers to the phenomenon where attitudes, emotions, or behaviours spread spontaneously through a group of people, similar to how a disease spreads, with individuals unconsciously adopting the traits of those around them, often through imitation or social influence; essentially, the "catching" of behaviours or emotions from others within a social network.

ND seem to be much more susceptible and social media, gaming communities have been shown to accelerate the process.

People with chronic illnesses, or have been through trauma or otherwise had difficult lives find comfort in fantasy/sci fi and things that are very far away from the realities of their lives.
It doesn’t take a genius to work this out.

I've taught 3 transgender students and all three had MH issues as well as autism/adhd. There's definitely a link there.

As a child most people thought I was a boy. I had very short hair and wore shorts/jeans and hated the concept of being a girl. I wished I was born male. I always thought of myself as a boy. I also have autism.

I do worry that if I'd grown up now, I would have been pushed down the transgender route. But today as a grown up I couldn't care less. I'm female because I was born female, but I don't see why that matters. It's just biological. I'm me and don't need a label or to change what I am or even feel the need to change anything.

If society stopped being so obsessed with labelling people then it wouldn't really matter. The only important label in life is whether a person is kind.

(There is some slight evidence suggesting a link between EDS / hypermobility and autism, but again the issue of poor diagnostics feeds into this too.)

@Elephantsarenottheonlyfruit No, there isn't strong evidence at this stage. Just saying that you think there is doesn't make it so! The conditions are diagnosed totally separately and it's very difficult, as I pointed out, to even research this as the populations are so tainted by poor quality diagnostics. Tbh it doesn't come across as if you understand the issues affecting this.

Mumsnet isn't anti trans, just anti bullshit. And posters don't like being bullied for daring to say something that trans people don't like.

Several years ago (possibly pre-Covid) I heard a doctor (psychiatrist or psychologist, can’t remember which) on the radio say that the evidence shows that 60-90% of those who ID as trans have co-morbid mental health problems. Most of which go untreated as soon as trans walks in through the door.

The most horrifying stat from Hannah Barnes’ work is that 10% of children referred to gender clinics have a sex offender as a parent.

And yet there are TRAs trying to stop any kind of research around this from going ahead or being published.

It’s a colossal medical scandal.

I disagree with you - there is good evidence of a link between neurodiversity and hypermobile conditions