Daughter’s friend acts like a twat

Sorry, but you sound awful. Mainly because you keep focusing on the fact she is not diagnosed, and your daughter is.

From what you have described it is quite clear she had SEN, especially PDA. I am not excusing her behaviour, but can definitely see the struggles from what you have said.

It seems as though her needs trigger you, which is also understandable, but the way you speak about this child is truly disgusting.
Your daughter on the other hand sounds quite sweet.

Neurodivergent people tend to gravitate towards each other as they tend to have more in common, hence why your daughter may be friends with her.

You are being unreasonable… because you are arranging play dates with this child. Just because she has issues it isn’t your problem and WILL affect your own child’s behaviour

I don't often comment on threads but my god, for the sake of your daughter and yourself, minimise your contact with this woman and her child. You need boundaries to protect yourself. If cutting contact is the way to go about it then so be it. This is not good for you.

I wouldn’t be friends with the mum anymore either.
its the mums fault the kid is acting like a twat.
the arse wiping would have been game over for me. If the kid had managed to get to 8 and it’s only just been considered that she’s SEN then you cannot blame that for her not wiping her own arse.

Get your daughter involved in other activities, clubs etc so she can experience other children and hopefully learn more about herself and maybe make new friends.
As for your friends daughter, it sounds like mum has checked out of parenting, her daughter may well start talking to and making friends with random people online, some can be good people BUT there are plenty of awful predators out there. She needs help and I hope she gets some.

Sounds like the little girl has no real attachment and no one in her life she can rely on or trust to keep her safe.

just tell her the truth, you can no longer put up with her daughter around yours and if that ends the friendship then it ends. Honesty is always quicker :)

Said in another context, but I have more than once had to explain that getting a diagnosis is not a "Get out of Jail" card. Before you call me unsympathetic let me clarify.
It can be very useful to get a clear diagnosis from an expert, and they will often suggest ways forward. If they are not one of the lucky ones who "gets the message" about behaviours, they need to be gently but firmly steered in the right direction, praised and encouraged when they show generosity and empathy.
It can be exhausting, especially when bratty behaviour has worked, in their eyes, very well for them, but in the long run, it would be in her best interests.
The birthday party incident is telling; your daughter needs reassuring that she is not responsible for her friend's well-being, but the child will grow up increasingly frustrated and isolated without help.

These play dates need to stop. Immediately. It’s sad for everyone involved but it’s how it is. You can make an excuse for this weekend’s meet up and then gently phase them out of your life. (You are sick, something came up, you’re not feeling well etc … until you haven’t met up for months.) This should not be too hard now that they have moved and changed schools. Next, I would try to set up other play dates with girls from your daughter’s class, from your neighbourhood etc. She’ll make new friends (and hopefully, with time, your daughter’s friend will too).

What really stands out to me is how the mum seems to be ignoring the child and her needs.

How is she going to be learning anything to support her development if she is in her bedroom all the time on Roblox, even at mealtimes? I actually think that is quite unsafe. Both from perspective of internet safety and a kid with possible SEN eating alone unsupervised every day. What if she choked?

Her mum ignoring her at the festival and scolding her when she wants comfort is actually really sad.

It sounds like she's almost using the SEN thing as a get out of jail free card for parenting. No one can judge my parenting cos my daughter is SEN/ she's SEN so that's how she is I'm not going to bother teaching her anything.

I've only really seen situations like this where mum has drink/drug issues, severe mental illness getting in the way of being able to parent, or a traumatic childhood herself meaning that she just does not know what a parent should do for their child. But those things can be improved If the parent asks for support. If this is just laziness that's even more shocking tbh

What's most worrying is that she doesn't seem to be looking for support, advice etc so has just decided not to bother raising her daughter. She is supposed to be the person who guides her child through the world. If she does have SEN her mum needs to give her more support, not less. If not, it seems this girl has had her social and emotional development needs met and is crying out for attention.

I actually feel really sorry for the little girl. It sounds like she is being failed. I hope nothing awful happens to her. But until the mum actually starts parenting her properly she is just not going to be able to keep friends. That's the consequence of her mother's actions.

I voted YABU as your reaction till now is unreasonable towards your daughter. It’s not your daughter’s responsibility to stand up to her friend. It’s YOUR responsibility to deal with the child. You should have sent her home the FIRST time she acted like a brat. You’re enabling her behaviour and enabling g her mother to accept her behaviour by accepting her behaviour at your house. Stop having her over. Tell her and her mother she’s welcome to play if she is well behaved.
this is probably going to put a damper on your friendship, but honestly, your friend is just being a bad parent if the kid has no manners. Even a kid with a diagnosis can be taught manners. What exactly do you want to teach your daughter? That it’s ok to be treated rudely or that it’s ok to tell people that their behaviour is not ok?

I would absolutely draw the line at a child having my child wipe their bottom for them! I have dear friends that I love like sisters and the only way I would do that for them is if they were very ill. Really it's time to draw a line under this friendship.

I had someone like that in my life at your daughter's age. My mother invited her over, not me. Our mothers were friends but we weren't. We might have looked like friends to the adults. Later she physically bullied me at school. I had a good friend my mum couldn't stand who fought her off. Luckily. I'd have been happier going through my life not knowing her. You can stop this. Meet your friend on her own while the dad's separately watch the kids. Leave them out of it.

We had a very similar situation. We stopped inviting the child to our house. Happy for town/activity meet ups but we were not putting up with the behaviour to our child and our belongings.

It does sound like the friend may be ND. I recognise a lot of her behaviour in my daughter but she only does it at home as she masks everywhere else. She’s AuDHD.

The mum of the girl shouldn’t be dropping her round for play dates though as she clearly can’t cope with them. And you shouldn’t be continuing to have her over.

I’ve said you’re unreasonable as you don’t seem to understand how even being undiagnosed autistic can still make a child behave this way. And you seem to think this kid is behaving this way by choice.

I think you’ve realised how awful this mum’s parenting is and that she’s enabling her child. It’s not in your child’s best interest to have this ‘twin’ in her life. The idea of your daughter wiping her friend’s bum is appalling, your poor child. I think it’s very useful that she’s moved schools/areas, you can allow this to fizzle out, but if the mum tries to insist, I’d not hold back from telling her you won’t have further playdates without her present and why after the wiping incident.

No no no! Stop these play dates. This child isn’t being g bought up at all by her mother. I would stop contact and explain to your daughter that you can’t have child x to play because we do things differently and help her find new friends through school or outside groups

Your responses here indicate that you're very reasonable. Halfway measure of only having child over if Mum comes too is ok, but means you have to entertain. Sounds like you've gained sufficient perspective from the constructive responses here to start distancing your DC and self . Parenting today seems much harder.

Have a last minute crisis and cancel your meetup. Something like a migraine which you can use again, not the boiler breaking.

You can then be very busy and unavailable and phase her out.

I never wiped my own kid's bum once they were old enough to use the toilet. It was one of the first lifeskills they learnt and they're ND.

And this kid is 8!

The skills you're talking about are nursery ones. Who wipes for this kid at school? Or dresses them? Sadly I think this kid's behaviour may have more to do with the Mum than any SEND.

The bottom wiping thing is completely unacceptable and I'd definitely be culling the friendship.

Why is every child that is rude, throws tantrums etc suddenly got sen? My sil child did this, was sick on demand of he didn’t get his own way for example, he isn’t sen, he was a brat with no boundaries set, once the sil started ignoring the tantrum’s etc, and laid out the rules, he was a different child. I wonder if people know how to bring their children up nowadays, seems everyone everything has to have a label. anything for an easy life.
As far as the Op goes, stop having the child around.

You are correct in saying your DD should not be putting up with the behaviour you describe from her friend. Your DD has been conditioned into thinking she’s her best friend by the mum but the moment she felt compelled to help her friend in the bathroom, she became her carer. That simply can’t continue.

None of the poor behaviour you describe can be put down 100% to SEN, though I agree that SEN children are more likely to find it much more difficult to conform and behave nicely. That simply means a lot more work for parents to guide them. It doesn’t mean to make excuses and drop standards of behaviour.
Your expectations of behaviour for your child are very different to those of this friend which is why this difficulty has arisen. Your friend is hoping you won’t notice.

Your friend is probably guilty of lazy parenting, of not taking time or making extra effort to help her DD. She likes you as a friend as you are compliant and she can normalise her poor parenting by saying you two mums are the same as well as saying the two girls are twinnies.

Don’t let her drag you and your DD down any more OP.
You and DD both deserve much nicer friends and are capable of being good friends to others who have higher expectation's the same as you.

It must be hard as a single mum to find like-minded friends but I would make an excuse for this weekend if you possibly can. It’s really good you have sussed her out a bit more and now realise it’s not good to subject your own DD to that sort of very poor behaviour.
Stay firm …I have a feeling this mum won’t let you go so easily -as you and your DD are so useful to her.

I’m sorry , I just don’t get how you can’t sit down with your friend and chat all this out , are ye actually friends or just friendly because of the kids ? There is a difference..
All sounds really dramatic to me & can’t possibly be positive for your daughter the way things are ..
If you & your friend can’t rectify the situation, I’d be calling it a day , but I would try first to fix things first & if that fails then , at least ye know ye gave it yr all 🤷🏻‍♀️

Always go with your gut feeling - (and ignore all the negative posts!) As you've said, your view of the situation has evolved as this thread has progressed and you now realise that both friendships have to go - it's definite;y the right decision.

I hope this thread has reassured you that you've clearly got a good handle on what's right for you and your DD, good instinct and that when something doesn't feel right calling a halt to it promptly, but positively, is the right way to go - it's a good response to model for your DD too - having a kind heart doesn't mean getting trampled on by others less considerate than you.